O8 SNG

[River2Pair]

Well, I'm working on my O8 game. I have some idea of starting hand selection, but I run into several of the traps of chasing lows and boats, and calling off too many chips with non-nut lows.

This hand here, of course I don't have questions about my play. I had a great starting hand 3-way, and it made the nuts (well, AA would had me on the high) both ways. What I'm looking at here is my opponent's dilemma. Drawing dead to the high (outside of a 3), with a pretty decent made low.

I think the best play with his hand is not to even bother limping, never mind call a PF raise at this level of the tournament. You're committing too many chips, needing a miracle flop. But assuming you see the flop here with his ragged hand and T800 of dead money in the pot, do you drop the hand? When? This hand obviously crippled SB and I cruised to a rare O8 first place finish.


Party Poker Limit Omaha/8 Tourney, Big Blind t200 (3 handed)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">SB (t1850)</font>
<font color="C00000">Tom (t2227)</font>
Button (t3923)

Preflop: Tom is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of t200.
<font color="CC3333">Tom raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) calls,

Flop: (4 SB, t800) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Tom bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB, t1200) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Tom bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (5 BB, t2000) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Tom bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB (t2800)

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows 6c 8d 5c Jc (Low: 6, 5, 4, 2, A | High: one pair, kings).
Tom shows Kc Ac 5h 3c (Low: 5, 4, 3, 2, A | High: full house, kings full of aces).
Outcome: Tom wins 7 BB (t2800). </font>

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Hi Tom,

I am pretty new to O8 myself and your opponents situation is an illustration of my problem with playing 08 S&amp;Gs. What hands do you play when the stakes get high and the table gets shorthanded? Any insight on that question is greatly appreciate.

As the SB this is what I see:
You are told that the odds of a mediocre O8 hand beating a good O8 hand are not that bad -- I think I have heard 60/40 is typical heads up. So when it is up to him, he figures he is getting 3:1 odds -- so he completes. When you raise, he is getting 3:1 odds again -- this time to call. At this point he does not know whether to put you on a great hand or just trying to push him.

The flop comes low and counterfeits both the A and 2 (two cards he would put you on with a low hand). In his shoes, I would see your bet on the flop as a probable bluff (or semi-bluff) and I would have check-raised. If you reraised, I would likely have called it.

Either way, when the K came on the turn and you bet again I would fold. You show no fear of another check-raise and all I have is a non-nut made low and a gutshot draw to a straight.

Those are my thoughts -- if someone with more knowledge of O8 responds, I would be very interested on their take.

Chuck

[Cleveland Guy]

I've played a bit in 08 ring games and mutlis - but where I play doesn't have a SNG option for 08.

Looking at his hand preflop - he has a decent flush draw (hard to know yours was better) and some good cards for a straight. That makes calling the raise acceptable.

In his position you have to think - those are the only 2 things I will play (other than a full house). If clubs don't come, or I don't get a good straight draw (4,7,9 - or 5,6,10 etc) you have to get out.

He got suckered in by chasing a non nut low - and was going after half the pot with a 56.

[jedi]

You might also get a response in the "Other Poker" forum. Several Omaha experts reside there.

At any rate, your opponent bungled this one really badly. This is NOT a hand to call off your chips. Can't make a wheel low, the best hope is for middling cards. He even has some of his own flush outs taken away. Luckly for him, he never made it since you had the A high clubs.

On the flop, he has a very good made 2nd nut low. The only hand that beats him is the 5-3 that you happen to hold. However, he's drawing VERY slim to high (runner-runner straight) and will be at best splitting the pot with your high.

I think this hand points out the flaws of playing crap hands. Sure, he could have escaped with half the pot, but instead he called off his chips for nothing. Think about it: Pre-flop, there's 600 in the pot and it's 200 to go for him. He's getting 3:1 pot odds immediately, but since you raised, there's no reason that you can't be betting out on all streets. So, it's the current 200, plus the flop bet of 200, plus the turn and river bets of 400 each making it really a 1200 wager to win 300 in chips. Even if he can get away from the hand post-flop, it's still a 200 bet for 300 in chips. Not great odds for him.

I would have folded this and tried to make a stand with a better hand.