Confessions of a LAG

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Crazy table with some LAGs (one of them being me /images/graemlins/grin.gif) Button on this hand is a total loon who doesn't know the meaning of fold or call He only knows two words, bet and raise. I don't really know much about MP2, cuz yea, its .05/.10 and I'm multi-tabling.

Paradise .05/.10

I'm UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif and limp. UTG+1 calls. MP1 calls. MP2 raises. LP calls. CO calls. Button 3-bets. Blinds fold. I CAP! They call.

Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check. UTG+1 checks. MP2 bets. LP calls. Button raises. I 3bet?!?! UTG folds. MP2 calls. LP folds. Button caps. I call. MP2 calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Wow, I love my backdoor draws. I bet. MP2 calls. Button raises. I 3bet! MP2 finally folds. Button caps. I call.

River: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check/call the river.

Results in black:
I have AK for A high. Button has 64o for a pair of 4's. MP2 berates us both for making him fold the winner. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

How'd I do?

[nothumb]

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.05/.10 and I'm multi-tabling.


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Bizarre.

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MP2 berates us both for making him fold the winner.

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Then you did great!

NT

[easypete]

Come on CDC.... Fold these garbage hands pf.

[kyro]

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How'd I do?

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Eh, definitely not the best play I've seen. What you SHOULD have done was countered with. "Can't win if you don't see the showdown nub. Now step off punk."

[B Dids]

I like your play a lot better than the winner. The flop 3-bet is genius.

[sfer]

I play it the same. This is not a joke. My frequency of getting heads-up and calling down maniacs with Ace high is like, 100%.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

You guys may think this post is somewhat half joking in nature since I went crazy with just A high and the title of the post, but there are subtle points in this hand I'd like you guys to discuss.

[tech]

Your flop and turn plays make sense to me, as long as your read on button is correct.

BTW, sorry I missed you when you popped in my 5/10 table the other day. I didn't see the chat until you had already left.

P.S. Why are you playing .05/.10? Blowing off steam?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

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P.S. Why are you playing .05/.10? Blowing off steam?

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After getting run over by super looseys in Party 15/30 combined with extensive playing time against tighties in UB 10/20, I wanted to make sure I could still beat loose games, LOL.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys may think this post is somewhat half joking in nature since I went crazy with just A high and the title of the post, but there are subtle points in this hand I'd like you guys to discuss.

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I wasn't joking either. I play it the same.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

I know you weren't joking. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I just wanted other people to realize what we LAG-TAG's are thinking.

[sfer]

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I just wanted other people to realize what we LAG-TAG's are thinking.

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Ask RustedCorpse. A couple of weeks ago at a live 3/6 game he watched me preflop cap a maniac with ATs and call down a totally bricked board. Maniac has A8o. The T played and MHIG.

[kyro]

OK, so you're serious. I guess I can understand the first two streets. Gut shot, backdoor flush draw, two overs, then on turn you get the first of your 2 needed clubs.

This many people though, I think your AKs is good about 1 in 100 times. I'd save my .10 and go buy a blow pop.

[Greg J]

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I'd save my .10 and go buy a blow pop.

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This very game, Paradise 5c/10c is how I tripled an initial 25$ deposit, before i moved to PS. Not getting angry... just so you know that this is a stepping stone for some of us legitimately dirt poor student types that wanna learn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I would like to see how CDC thinks this game (being my old stomping grounds) compared to other higher limits at Party.

[sfer]

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This many people though, I think your AKs is good about 1 in 100 times. I'd save my .10 and go buy a blow pop.

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I love unimproved AK in a heads-up showdown against a maniac.

[kyro]

Hey, I've played it. I'm not trying to be condescending in any way. In fact, if I was smart I'd still BE there so I would stop busting out.

I just think he has no chance of winning, but I'm probably wrong which is why I lose more than I win.

[sfer]

Look what CDC is doing. The pot is huge on the flop--28 SBs. It's still growing--16.5 BBs on the turn, 25.5 BBs on the river. He's using his position to the immediate left of a maniac to leverage out the rest of the field at every opportunity. If he gets heads-up his hand, unimproved, will be good certainly more than 1 in 25 times. Given that a maniac will play every hand in exactly one way he's ahead like 60% of the time. If he narrows the field a little bit, he makes his overcard outs that much cleaner. He's doing everything possible to win the pot.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

You nailed this one on the head as usual.

The part that makes this hand sweeter is that I managed to get MP to fold the winner (thus making MY hand more likely to be a winner). It's important to play just as maniacal as a maniac in these types of situations because you can leverage out people forcing people to call (or fold) 2 bets cold despite them having a better hand than you. It's very important to clean up my outs here and do what I can to get it heads up with the maniac.

However, this concept doesn't just apply to maniacs either. Suppose you're in first position, you have a decent player in the middle, and a TAG acting last. You should very often be checkraising in these spots even if you think you may only have the 2nd or 3rd best hand because you can force the middle player to incorrectly fold a better hand or a hand with clean outs and get it heads up.

Though I couldn't hit my billion outer on the river in this hand, the call was automatic.

[dfscott]

I think I understand this, but I'm still having a little trouble and this looks like an important concept that I want to make sure I "get."

So, it sounds like you're saying that since button is such a super LAG (SLAG?), that any betting/raising that he does is meaningless as far as reading him. Instead of a Calling Station, he's a betting/raising station. In that case, you want to be playing hands that play best heads up (such as AK) and just treat his hand like Q9o (or even just ignore it). Once you get everyone else out, you slow down (assuming you still don't think you have the best hand) and just play him heads-up.

Would that mean that you would NOT be playing this way with A4s and other hands that play best multi-way?

[SparkyDog]

Why not lead out and call a raise on the river? =)

This got me to thinking about how to play nut no pair hands against maniacs on the river... is it more profitable to go multiple bets on the river than check/calling?

[Greg J]

Okay, I just looked at this hand again... and I think Ed Miller should personally give you a gold star for your post flop play (preflop I raise this). Jesus Christ, these "ah ha" moments are becoming more and more rare for me, but I just had one re: this thread.

I still wanna know how you compare this game to the various limits you have played at PP (hope that is not too dumb an inquiry).

[SteveY]

this hand is art /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Trix]

I would raise preflop and cap when Button 3bets. If he only raises anything, but dont 3bet, your play is probably good as your hand also plays well multiway.

I check-coldcall the flop as I dont think I can get a bettor and a caller out here.

Instead of betting the turn I would check-raise button(the people at this limit wont worry about getting trapped, so they will end up calling your bet, not considering that button will raise), but probably coldcall if someone between bet and button raised as some people just cant fold at this limit.

I like the river play.