Plugging a leak? Can I get away from this hand?

[allenciox]

I had two almost identical situations that killed me in SNGs last night. I will post the first here (where I had 2 pr on the flop), the other was similar with the difference that I held a pair of 8s and got my set on the flop. Is there any way to get out of this?

$200+15 NLHE SNG on Party, second round (blinds at 15/30)
I am in the big blind with 825 in chips. Nobody is out yet.

I am dealt 8d 6c in the BB. It is passed around to a middle position player (who happens to be low chip stack at 680), who calls the big blind, the button and small blind also call. I check to see the flop.

The flop comes 8h 6h 4s.

Small blind checks. I have top two pair, and I lead out and bet 100, since this flop could lead to a lot of draws. I am called by MP and the button. SB folds.

The turn comes Js...even more draws possible on the flop. I bet 300, which is called by MP, button folds.

The river comes 2c. I check, MP bets his last 250 chips, I reluctantly call, and he turns over 5c 7h --- he made his straight on the flop, and I am down to 145.

Any way to avoid this?

[ddubois]

Nope.

[BlackMamba]

Well there is one way, actually 2, but both are extreme and go against the norm.

#1: Fold the hand PF. This will have wasted some of your chips, but it prevents this awful event from ever happening.

#2: Raise out of the BB. By raising, you may scare off people with weak cards, such as the 5,7. If the flop misses, you would've wasted some chips, but if it hit you like it did, you would definately make up for what you lost. As I said before, these are very extreme, and I don't recommend doing any of them unless the time calls for it.

Now, without doing one of these, this event was unavoidable, the flop hit you hard, it hit him harder /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[poboys]

[ QUOTE ]
Well there is one way, actually 2, but both are extreme and go against the norm.

#1: Fold the hand PF. This will have wasted some of your chips, but it prevents this awful event from ever happening.


[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaaat? Please tell me that my morning coffee is wearing off and I am missing some obvious sarcasm here.

Folding rather than checking? And then you hit two pair. Also, since you aren't in the hand you'll never see that the 'other guy' had you beat. You'd go nuts. And, as a side benefit, everyone at the table with thing you freebase.

[ QUOTE ]
#2: Raise out of the BB. By raising, you may scare off people with weak cards, such as the 5,7. If the flop misses, you would've wasted some chips, but if it hit you like it did, you would definately make up for what you lost. As I said before, these are very extreme, and I don't recommend doing any of them unless the time calls for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, what? Raise? To thin the field? You have a drawing hand in which you can see the flop for free and you want to thin the field?

[stupidsucker]

Im probably All in on the turn, but that doesnt help much :/

Or I checkraise all in on the flop... that doesnt help either /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I have gotten away from 2 pair before, but it involves a worse flop with higher cards, and a ton of action telling me that there is a set or a str8 out there.

I see this as nearly unavoidable. You certainly shouldnt be betting preflop, and its stupid to fold a free flop from the BB.

[Rekwob]

your morning coffee is wearing off and you're am missing some obvious sarcasm there.

it was unavoidable unless he'd done one of those two things. that was never going to happen, so it was unavoidable.

unlucky, move on.

[StickyWicket]

You put yourself up as the aggressor in this situation and when you got smooth-called on the flop, maybe it should have set-off a ringer in your head. I've been there, I've burned the chips. Hell, there have been times I haven't even SEEN the straight on the board. When he pushed the last of his chips in on the deuce---yikes...an easy call compared to the size of the pot. You got rolled, he got lucky.

Maybe listen for those smooth-call alarms the next time? Always be wary in an un-raised pot...anything and everything is likely to be lurking.

[ChessMan]

Yep it's a tricky game. Nothing can really be done about
someone flopping a straight. I usually always take a moment to see if nasty stuff like that can possibly be there, but how to detect whether someone called the BB with 57?
I guess I'd make a huge bet like 1.5 to 3 times the pot depending on how many chips that is relative to his and my stack. If I get a caller, it is something to think about. I'd probably bet a little and fold a raise on the turn if he didn't have a history of bluffing. I play $2 tables, so the little bet on the turn actually makes some people fold sometimes (if they accidentally called the flop, or they lost their nerve and decided they better not bluff). Against a good player it is very likely they have the straight; maybe they have 2-pair instead.

[PrayingMantis]

This hand is a great example for why BB's hands are so tricky to play, even if you've hit some nice piece of the flop.

I must say I don't particularly like the way you've played it, although I can not blame you. You have a hand, you lead with a pottish bet on the flop. However, this pottish bet is not very big, and you're playing against 3 players, that could have anything, many draws, and sets that beat you, and you'll never know.

I would tend to try for the check-raise all-in, if I know MP or button are aggressive post-flop (this is a classic flop for a steal by button). Many times I see players in this situations push with 2p from BB, and get some weak calls. The point is, with the kind of hand you got, I really don't like seeing 2 more streets against 3 more players, in a NL situation, that went unraised PF.

I think that on the turn, if you are going to play it, it's for all your chips. Your 300 bet is an invitation for troubles in this spot.

On the river: when the pot is 900, and MP still has 250, (you have around 400?) something went a bit wrong in the hand, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
I reluctantly call

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems as if you played this whole hand reluctantly. I know how it feels. I hate finishing SNGs with such problematic hands, early on. That's why I think it's better to play it very strong, or very very careful.

[steeser]

I would say a good portion of my early outs in SNG's involve a free look in the BB and flopping two pair. Generally I'll play it for a checkraise on the flop, but sometimes I will bet out.

Impossible to get away from on that board though. I wouldn't have been able to put anyone on that except for a blind. The only way you could get away is if the flop were 3 of the same suit, or three direct connectors. Tough break.