Has anyone checked out this NYC card barn yet?

[sfer]

This place. (http://www.brooklynplayersclub.com/)

I normally wouldn't post this so publicly except that it's all over Craigslist like flies on doggie-do.

Opinions on the games? When do the cash games get off the ground, if at all?

Muchas gracias.

[Arnie]

looks interesting I may check it out

[peapod718]

I think this is a new place run by ppl who run Galaxy on 36th Street in the City.

[3rdCheckRaise]

Nope it is not. Galaxy people opened up a place in brooklyn in bensonhurst.

[boedeker]

i went tonight and the 2/1 nl was the softest game i have ever played. I and one other were the only people raising preflop. after being sucked out on 2 times after all ins on the turn (both time AK called my all in once i had TPTK and the other time an over pair) against short stack i finally called it quits up 200 bucks after three hours of play.

[rg999]

check out www.nycgalaxy.com (http://www.nycgalaxy.com)

[turnipmonster]

are the cash NL games at galaxy going on a regular basis? on the site they seem to have 3-5 and 5-10 very regularly.

--turnipmonster

[Chazbot2000]

What's the deal, I didn't think card rooms were legal in NYC?

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the deal, I didn't think card rooms were legal in NYC?

[/ QUOTE ]

They're not.

Regards,

T

[Chazbot2000]

Then putting the address on the web seems like a guaranteed way to get shut down. There has to be something more to this.......

[The Armchair]

If I had to guess, it's one of two things:

a) They don't care if they're "caught," as the cops are only going to shut them down, and not prosecute.
b) Someone with a good deal of money wants to force the issue, have a court case brought, and hopes/expects that the courts will find poker (specifically hold'em?) to be a game of skill and therefore legal in NY State. (I'd have to look up the law re: games of skill vs. games of chance, but given that people regularly play chess for $ in Washington Square Park, I'm pretty sure we're a "games of chance = bad" state.)

Note that if scenario B is right, and a ruling comes down in their favor, someone is going to have a HUGE payday.

[sfer]

Lots of illegal things are tolerated in most parts of the world. Jaywalking being an easy example.

Want drugs? I bet you could score them pretty easily. So could the police.

[Jason Strasser]

Bloomberg doesnt give a crap, why should anyone else?

[Evan]

I was with you until you brought in Washington Sq. Park as a legal refence. Oherwise, interesting post.

[The Armchair]

You've never seen it? There are always guys there playing chess for cash. Chess is pure skill -- there's virtually no luck. So, it's (supposedly) legit.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Armchair:

One of the regulars who plays at PC is an attorney (I know because he is MY attorney, I brought him to PC for the first time 2 months ago). He has been looking into the legalities of our passion in NY State and NYC, but hasn't gotten far yet. Obviously it is a challenge that hasn't been won as of yet, and it helps that Bloomberg allegedly plays the game himself.

Now that Giuliani is gone (thank god! I know its hard for people to understand if they live outside NYC, but the man was NOT a hero... he is just a bigmouth bully who stepped up to the plate after 9/11 just as any governmental official would have if given the air time) the Bloomberg administration will continue to ignore the poker rooms growing in the city until there is a legitimate problem or complaints from neighbors. So as long as we keep things clean and the rooms pay their taxes, I think we will continue to have our freedom.

In da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Evan]

I've seen it plenty, I used to live about 100 ft. from the park. I'm just saying that just because something happens in Washington Square doesn't mean it's legal. (For all I know it may be. I just couldn't help responding to a post about Washingotn Square Park.)

[Rams_Law]

[ QUOTE ]
[Rudy==evil, Bloomberg==wonderfull, blah blah] ...I think we will continue to have our freedom.


[/ QUOTE ]

Unless, of course someone wanted the freedom to light up a cigar(ette) in the card room; then Bloomberg'd have the cops breaking down the doors. Funny how freedom works that way. For those of you watching at home, lets just say opinions do vary.

I'm no lawyer, and this certainly isn't legal advice but last time I recall reading them, the NY State constitution is suprisingly explicit in its prohibition on gambling, and the statues rather encompasing of what constitutes gambling. I think these places are foolishly greedy in raising such a high profile. But given the relatively low start-up investment, some obviously believe its worth it to ride the poker boom for however long it lasts. If I recall, the website was the beginning of the end for Rounders club in NJ.

[sfer]

Guiliani, Bloomberg, chess hustlers, legal/illegal, whatever. I'm probably going Friday night. If any 2+2ers are heading there, PM me so we can identify each other.

[AviD]

Haha...STAY ON TOPIC PEOPLE, ON TOPIC! WTF! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PoorLawyer]

There is a difference between legit and not prosecuted.

[MRBAA]

Gambling is legal as long as there is no house. For example, I play in a game on the MetroNorth commuter train with several lawyers. It was busted years ago and all charges were immediately dropped -- having a poker game or playing chess for $$ is perfectly legal. What's NOT legal is running a gambling establishment. For example, I can invite friends to my house to play for as much as we care to gamble. Perfectly legal as long as I'm just another player. But the minute I start cutting the pot/taking a time charge, I'm running a gambling establishment, which is illegal. That's why poker clubs aren't run openly.

Totally agree on Giuliani and would go a step farther -- he is a bit of a demagogue and a little scary in his disregard for democracy.

[bdk3clash]

Why do the NYC cardrooms all have a time collection for games instead of a rake?

In most casinos and B&M cardrooms, games under 10-20 are always raked, and 10-20-ish games and up tend to have time charges. In NYC cardrooms, all the games have time charges, even 3-6.

Is a rake, like, more illegal in New York than a time charge would be?

[rg999]

3-5 no limit is a regular game
5-10 is usually on mondays /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[turnipmonster]

yes. from what I understand time charges are more defensible if they get taken to court. they are, after all, just renting seats in a gaming club.

--turnipmonster

[The Armchair]

Yes, I know, but I think it's done openly and notoriously because it's legit. Similarly, see the Honors Bridge Club on 57th/Lex, and the pool tournaments at Amsterdam.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying that just because something happens in Washington Square doesn't mean it's legal.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. very true.

--turnipmonster

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying that just because something happens in Washington Square doesn't mean it's legal.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. very true.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't the (former) Dell Dude get busted buying weed there?

[turnipmonster]

how does this game work? do you actually have a table or something? chips? isn't dealing the cards a pain?

--turnipmonster

[swami]

does any one know the time charge at the Brooklyn Club for the 1/2 NL game.

[wop squad]

[ QUOTE ]
how does this game work? do you actually have a table or something? chips? isn't dealing the cards a pain?

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

actually there is no table, the cards float on jets of air blowing from the floor. no chips either, everyone just writes there bet down on a piece of paper.

[Chazbot2000]

In California, it is exactly this distinction that lets card rooms operate legally. Wouldn't be suprised if NYC cardrooms are try to set a similar precedent.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Haha...STAY ON TOPIC PEOPLE, ON TOPIC! WTF!

[/ QUOTE ]

Exercise in futility, clearly. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[boedeker]

4 dollars

[edtost]

what's the min/max buyin for the 3-5?

[MRBAA]

Players sit in one of the facing seat areas adjacent to the doors. They take down two advertising posters and hold them on their knees. It's cash, $1-5 spread limit with $1-10 on the last card. Pretty much all stud, with an occaisonal hand of draw. No hold'em.It's an institution, and a couple of the players have been in this game for 30+ years. One guy is a NY Players club regular in the 75-150 game and has played with Ted Forrest and other notables.

When the game got busted, the players demanded an apology. When MetroNorth wouldn't provide one, they sued for false arrest and won a judgement large enough that each player in that day's game got over $30,000, I'm told.

[BottlesOf]

Awesome.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless, of course someone wanted the freedom to light up a cigar(ette) in the card room; then Bloomberg'd have the cops breaking down the doors. Funny how freedom works that way. For those of you watching at home, lets just say opinions do vary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to get off topic here - The No Smoking regulation is not a NYC (or Bloomberg's) law anymore, 7 months later it was enabled state wide (and much stricter I might add)after the NYC law went into effect. Funny how Bloomberg took the rap for all of this when he does not have the ability to pass laws, the strict law was enacted by the City Council. Bloomberg was lobbying for a softer version, not what the City Council passed. I feel bad for Bloomberg, he has been the poster child for smokers all over the city to take out their agressions yet he had the smallest role in the decisions!

[ QUOTE ]
the website was the beginning of the end for Rounders club in NJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rounders has re-opened in Staten Island as Aces. Check out their web site, I found out about it on Craigs List where they were advertising. And on a related note, how about NYC No Limit Club, they are posting on Craig's List too.

In da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
When the game got busted, the players demanded an apology. When MetroNorth wouldn't provide one, they sued for false arrest and won a judgement large enough that each player in that day's game got over $30,000, I'm told.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats odd. I started one in the back of a bar a few months ago, because I thought since there was no rake it would be considered legal. But after I read the gambeling statutes I learned that all home games are technically illegal once money is exchanged. The only time games of chance are considered legal is when they are registered with the state, and the proceedes go to a pre-registered charity (I do not recall if it is 100%, or a smaller percentage).

When the legeondary Mayfair was shut down by Gulliani's people they used the defence that it was a members only social club and were not collecting a rake, just payment for the amount of time spent there - that strategy obviously failed... But it didn't fail bad enough because the owners of Mayfair have reopened so it cannot be that bad.

On the plus side to my knowlege there has not been an arrest of a player in MANY years in NY, they just shut down the rooms and check the IDs of everyone in the room.

In da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Brooklynplayersclub]

The Brooklyn Players Club is a new club which has no affliation with any other clubs.

Right in the heart of Park Slope lies Brooklyn's newest social club, Brooklyn Players Club. Open 7 days a week, this club offers a relaxing and inviting atmosphere where you can come and enjoy friendly games of backgammon, chess and cards. Large rooms, with views of the Statue of Liberty, provide a comfortable space to gather with friends. Professional poker tables offer a chance for everyone to get in on the action and daily tournaments guarantee a packed house. Complimentary food and drinks are served by our waitresses and numerous restaurants deliver to our door. Brooklyn Players Club is conveniently located 1 block from the R & M train and for those who drive there is plenty of parking around the premises.

Stop by Brooklyn Players Club where it's poker night every night!


ACTION EVERY NIGHT!!

call 718-768-POKER
(718-768-7653)

Brooklyn Players Club (http://www.brooklynpoker.com)

[Mr. Fuchs]

Just played there tonight, great characters - alot of fun playing the baby no limit. It's a real classy joint - saw the tyson fight there. Waitresses were really nice, games were pretty good. It's my second time at a NYC card barn and the first one I went to I didn't like. This one I did so I recommend checking it out.

[-Heineken-]

[ QUOTE ]
On the plus side to my knowlege there has not been an arrest of a player in MANY years in NY, they just shut down the rooms and check the IDs of everyone in the room.

In da club


[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't mention the part about losing all the money you have on the table. The police DO NOT cash you out!!

[bdk3clash]

Supposedly, the owners of the Mayfair gave players back what they said they had when the final raid happened. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

rumor has it (as bdk3clash and I discussed when we met if I remember correctly) is someone in NYC is trying to get caught to force a decision that poker is a game of skill, not chance. If so the existing laws may be overruled and poker rooms could thrive ala the Commerce in CA.

But then again, what do I know... I've been sick for three weeks ang haven't played in any of the good rooms since then. Alot can happen in 3 weeks!

Speaking of card barns, any 2+2ers plaing at Wall Street in the LES? I love the owner, he is such a great guy. He doesn't belive in publicity (unlike Galexy, Players Club, Aces, etc) he is taking a very careful approach.

in da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[turnipmonster]

where is wall street? do they have pot limit or no limit? pm me if you want /images/graemlins/smile.gif

--turnipmonster

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
rumor has it (as bdk3clash and I discussed when we met if I remember correctly) is someone in NYC is trying to get caught to force a decision that poker is a game of skill, not chance. If so the existing laws may be overruled and poker rooms could thrive ala the Commerce in CA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think when we discussed this several weeks back I was just pointing out that it would be damn near impossible to win in court with this argument. It's been tried before, and the NY State constitution has such strong wording against any type of gambling that I don't see it working.

[sfer]

I'm also reasonably sure that the legalization of California poker was legislated.

[Luv2DriveTT]

California was made due to a court ruling, can anyone who knows more jump in?

Too bad Steven C doesn't visit here, he is a regular at PC (three tourns a week on average there, and one at the club that will remain nameless's 23rd street branch) and also an attourny. He has been studying his gabeling law recently in preparation for some changes. Governor Patacki has come out in favor of casinos opening upstate ny, this could all be a byproduct. Besides when they do get caught if they loose its just a slap on the wrist, nothing too serious. The mayfair guys are living proof.

As for Wall Street - sorry, can't help you there unless I know you personally. The owner keeps a super tight ship, and won't allow anyone in he does not know. But the average night has 4-6 tables going 4 days a week, so I think his strategy is working!

In da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[turnipmonster]

you sort of know me personally, we (you, me and brad) had dinner together after a tournament at nypc /images/graemlins/smile.gif. anyways, pm me if you can get me in.

--turnipmonster

[The Armchair]

The pertinent part is found in the NYS Constitution at Art. I Sec. 9 (1):
[ QUOTE ]

no lottery or the sale of
lottery tickets, pool-selling, book-making, or any other kind of
gambling, except lotteries operated by the state and the sale of lottery
tickets in connection therewith as may be authorized and prescribed by
the legislature, the net proceeds of which shall be applied exclusively
to or in aid or support of education in this state as the legislature
may prescribe, and except pari-mutuel betting on horse races as may be
prescribed by the legislature and from which the state shall derive a
reasonable revenue for the support of government, shall hereafter be
authorized or allowed within this state; and the legislature shall pass
appropriate laws to prevent offenses against any of the provisions of
this section.


[/ QUOTE ]

Art I Sec 9(2) lists a specific game (in a different context, but it's not good for card barns):
[ QUOTE ]

games in which prizes are
awarded on the basis of a winning number or numbers, color or colors, or
symbol or symbols determined by chance from among those previously
selected or played, whether determined as the result of the spinning of
a wheel, a drawing or otherwise by chance.


[/ QUOTE ]


I think one can reasonably say that ring games are illegal but tournaments are not. The reason is that in a ring game, each hand is an individual contest (especially as viewed by the house). But in a tournament, that's not true.

Even then, it's a tough argument to make.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Done. We can go there together, you won't get in otherwise! I'll send you a PM. Didn't recognise the nick, my bad!

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Even then, it's a tough argument to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt! Thankfully its not our argument or legal battle, its theirs. We are just pawns in the game. But I could see how a deft litigator can try to manipulate it in a way that makes tournament play legal if a portion of the procees goes to the real house (the state government).

Hey... what do I care.... I moved out of NYC earlier this year! Hurrah for NJ! (first time I ever said that.. lol!)

In da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[nycityal]

>>One of the regulars who plays at PC is an attorney (I know because he is MY attorney, I brought him to PC for the first time 2 months ago). He has been looking into the legalities of our passion in NY State and NYC, but hasn't gotten far yet. Obviously it is a challenge that hasn't been won as of yet, and it helps that Bloomberg allegedly plays the game himself.<<

There are several websites featuring the ability to create online petitions and have them signed virtually. I am not a lawyer, but since you know one maybe you can get him to go to one of the sites, read up on what's needed, and create such an online petition. If your attorney friend, or anyone else who is an attorney, can do so and post a link on this thread, I'm sure you'd get enough signatures within a month to at least, possibly, get a legislative body to look at the issue. After all, there must be some politicians in NYC and NYS who play poker.