ZeroRake...All You need to know, the truth Uncovered!

[Stew]

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: ZERORAKE.COM
Created on: 15-Mar-04
Expires on: 15-Mar-05
Last Updated on: 23-Mar-04
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.ACTIONPOKER.COM
NS2.ACTIONPOKER.COM
-----------------------------------
The domain name was recently registered as can be seen above.
Zerorake.com uses actionpoker.com for its domain servers. If you look
up the registrant of actionpoker.com you will see that it is exactly
the same as pokerspot.com. Pokerspot.com was Dutch's old venture where
he cheated everyone out of there money.
---------------------------------------------
Registrant:
Action Poker
PO BOX 2372
St Johns, St Johns 2372
Antigua and Barbuda

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: ACTIONPOKER.COM
Created on: 12-Oct-99
Expires on: 12-Oct-05
Last Updated on: 20-Feb-04

-------------------------------------------
Registrant: Make this info private
PokerSpot International (24759286O)
No. 6 Temple Street
P.o. Box 2372
St. Johns,
AN
No Valid City, No Valid State
Phone: 999 999 9999
Fax: 999 999 9999

Domain Name: POKERSPOT.COM

Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Boyd, Robert
(RB24698)
rboyd@POKERSPOT.COM
No. 6 Temple Street
P.o. Box 2372 St. Johns N/A 00000,
AN
Phone: (650) 562-1900
Fax: (801) 749-1553

Record expires on 16-Aug-2004
Record created on 16-Aug-1999
Database last updated on 07-Jul-2004

[Inthacup]

That's very interesting stuff Stew. Anyone care to email zerorake and see what they have to say?


Cup

[LikesToLose]

Great info.

Has anyone played both Pokerspot and Zerorake? Does the software seem to be the same? Probably impossible to tell since the graphics and color schemes would be changed/disguised/updated.

[TM1212]

The software used at pokerspot is completely different then zero rakes. I think Boyd a little smarter then using the identical software on a new site. Zero rakes software is identical to that used at superior poker. I dont think there any correlation between the two, probably just the same software.
But this information you have uncovered is very interesting. It really won't surprise me if zero rake is boyd's site, its identical the business model the he had written at his site. Theres probably no way they'll admit if boyd is really running the site, as no one will trust the site. All I know is until boyd lanches his site, or until some other evidence comes up regarding zerorake there is no way i will put a penny on it.
Even if its not Boyd the reality of a zero rake site actually working ou is highly doubtful. They need tens of thousands of users to break even. To much risked invovled in this site.

[LikesToLose]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if its not Boyd the reality of a zero rake site actually working ou is highly doubtful. They need tens of thousands of users to break even. To much risked invovled in this site.



[/ QUOTE ]

I came up with a brilliant way to get a no-rake type of site off the ground. Then as I thought a little more, I realized it wouldn't work.

The only way I see is if a site were setup as a skin to another site with a decent amount of traffice already on it. But then again, what site would allow a no-rake skin?

Too bad.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

I think the best idea would be to clutter the table and lobby with banner ads from all kinds of sites. Something like a rotating banner on the table. You need visitors before you are going to get sponsors though.

[Mike Haven]

Registrant: Make this info private
TwoPlusTwo Publishing
No. 6 Temple Street
P.o. Box 2372
St. Johns,
AN
No Valid City, No Valid State
Phone: (650) 562-****
Fax: (801) 749-****

Domain Name: TWOPLUSTWO.COM

Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Boyd, Robert (RB24698)
rboyd@TWOPLUSTWO.COM
No. 6 Temple Street
P.o. Box 2372 St. Johns N/A 00000,
AN
Phone: (650) 562-****
Fax: (801) 749-****

Record expires on 22-Jul-2004
Record created on 22-Jul-1999
Database last updated on 21-Jul-2004

[MS Sunshine]

Good work Stew.

After all the spamming and denying that Dutch has anything to do with the site, and the one weak game, I wonder what's going to happen when this site goes bellyup? Is ZeroRake using player's deposits to fund their business plan? Let's not forget about using the fraudulant dollars scam. Not that you need reminding about any kind of scam.

Dutch you're scum. It doesn't surprise me at all that you would start a new site and deny have anything to do with it. For all the new posters that think that Russ got a bad deal from us here when PokerSpot went out of business, this is how this guy operates. Lying is just SOP for him. Pretty soon he will have another positive spin online article explaining how the negative posts here, from affiliates, killed his idea to give the players a fairer break on the cost of poker. Maybe ESPN can do another segment on your winning poker ways by intimidating world-class players with your chip shuffling.

MS Sunshine

[Stew]

Hey Mike,

I'm not really sure what your point on this is but here's the info on twoplustwo when I ran it:


Registrant:
Two Plus Two Publishing


Address:
226 Garfield Dr.
Henderson, NV 89014
US


First Registered:
June 08, 1997


Last Updated:
July 21, 2004


Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Weinstock, Charles B. (CBW2) weinstock@CONJELCO.COM
CONJELCO
1460 Bennington Ave, PA 15217
US
412-621-6040 fax: 412-621-6214


Name Servers:
NS.RACKSPACE.COM 207.235.16.2
NS2.RACKSPACE.COM 207.71.44.121



Information Source:
Network Solutions

[Just The Facts]

I'm glad they will listen to you. This information has been obvious since day one.

[Miss Nancy]

I just would like to say that I never created any spam. I only posted once because I thought the idea of a rake free--or at least a cut in rake--would be a good thing for the players. If this site is a big hoax, then I'm glad it was uncovered. I had no agenda other than that.

[fnurt]

This actually doesn't prove anything. Zerorake is set up through actionpoker.com, just like Tiger Gaming and several other sites. Take a look at http://www.actionpoker.com.

Judging from the information posted by Stew, it looks like pokerspot was set up through actionpoker.com too. Obviously they're no longer listed as a licensee on the actionpoker.com site because they are out of business.

The unanswered $64,000 question here is who is behind actionpoker.com.

[yct]

[ QUOTE ]
The unanswered $64,000 question here is who is behind actionpoker.com.


[/ QUOTE ]

maybe gabyyyyyyyy

[Cardroom Mngr of Zerorake]

Dear Sir,

Thanks for your email.

The address in Antigua attached to the domain name ActionPoker.com (not attached to the domain ZeroRake.com) belongs to the office of the registered resident agent of our wholly owned subsidiary Action Poker Gaming Inc. The office of the registered resident agent is the only presence that our subsidiary has in Antigua, which is not unusual for an offshore company. All companies domiciled in Antigua are required to have a registered resident agent in Antigua who files annual paperwork to the Antiguan government. A registered resident agent (typically an attorney) usually has hundreds if not thousands of companies for which they act as the registered resident agent.

We know for a fact that our resident agent in Antigua also acts on behalf of many other gaming companies, including some of the most recognized in the industry.

The registered resident agent has no control over or knowledge of the business of Action Poker Gaming Inc. .

Please be informed that ZeroRake.com is registered in Kahnawake where it is hosted and where Action Poker Gaming, Inc. holds its license to operate.

Once again and for the record we have no association whatsoever with Dutch Boyd.

Best Regards,



Cardroom Manager

ZeroRake.com

[Alobar]

thanks for clearing that up. Unfortunately I'm sure this will continue to go on (accusations and stuff) because people can't seem to just let it go.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Sir,

Thanks for your email.

The address in Antigua attached to the domain name ActionPoker.com (not attached to the domain ZeroRake.com) belongs to the office of the registered resident agent of our wholly owned subsidiary Action Poker Gaming Inc. The office of the registered resident agent is the only presence that our subsidiary has in Antigua, which is not unusual for an offshore company. All companies domiciled in Antigua are required to have a registered resident agent in Antigua who files annual paperwork to the Antiguan government. A registered resident agent (typically an attorney) usually has hundreds if not thousands of companies for which they act as the registered resident agent.

We know for a fact that our resident agent in Antigua also acts on behalf of many other gaming companies, including some of the most recognized in the industry.

The registered resident agent has no control over or knowledge of the business of Action Poker Gaming Inc. .

Please be informed that ZeroRake.com is registered in Kahnawake where it is hosted and where Action Poker Gaming, Inc. holds its license to operate.

Once again and for the record we have no association whatsoever with Dutch Boyd.

Best Regards,



Cardroom Manager

ZeroRake.com

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, I didn't send you an email, so you basically copied and pasted something that you have been sending out to those that have emailed you.

Your response didn't really explain anything, but it is clear you are linked to ActionPoker which had previously been associatd with Dutch Boyd.

Whether or not Dutch Boyd is currently associated with ZeroRake is unclear and it will be difficult for you to distance yourself from that association even if he has no involvment with ZeroRake.

Regardless, if there is no association with Dutch Boyd, I wish you luck. Either way, I won't play at your site until you A) get more traffic and B) it is clear to me that Dutch Boyd is not involved with ZeroRake.

[Just The Facts]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Sir,

Thanks for your email.

The address in Antigua attached to the domain name ActionPoker.com (not attached to the domain ZeroRake.com) belongs to the office of the registered resident agent of our wholly owned subsidiary Action Poker Gaming Inc. The office of the registered resident agent is the only presence that our subsidiary has in Antigua, which is not unusual for an offshore company. All companies domiciled in Antigua are required to have a registered resident agent in Antigua who files annual paperwork to the Antiguan government. A registered resident agent (typically an attorney) usually has hundreds if not thousands of companies for which they act as the registered resident agent.

We know for a fact that our resident agent in Antigua also acts on behalf of many other gaming companies, including some of the most recognized in the industry.

The registered resident agent has no control over or knowledge of the business of Action Poker Gaming Inc. .

Please be informed that ZeroRake.com is registered in Kahnawake where it is hosted and where Action Poker Gaming, Inc. holds its license to operate.

Once again and for the record we have no association whatsoever with Dutch Boyd.

Best Regards,



Cardroom Manager

ZeroRake.com

[/ QUOTE ]


Which one of "The Crew" are you? Gank the Skank?

[Synergistic Explosions]

Unreal. Some of you will go to great lengths to fabricate untrue accusations.

When will it end?

[Flawed]

[ QUOTE ]
Unreal. Some of you will go to great lengths to fabricate untrue accusations.

When will it end?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im wondering when it will end myself. How could poker players be against a rake free site this much? As a poker player we know the site will probably fail but we want it to succeed. All these posters that are completely against this site are either affiliates, huge dutch haters who hate on anything that reminds them of him, or they're just dumb.

[HajiShirazu]

I agree, however, if you had lost a huge amount of money at a poker site ran by dutch boyd, you probably would hate the guy as well.

[Instyle007]

All I have to say is WOW. What the heck will it take for all you people to believe Dutch is not involved with Zero Rake or Action Poker.

Why doesn't someone call or write Dutch and ask him?
If he says he is, and really is we have our answer. If he says he isn't, then we've got our answe. If he says he is but isn't, he'll get his ass sued and we'll have our answer.

I have a very strong feeling all these posts attacking Zero are from either Dutch and his people, or another party trying to start a no rake site hoping to get Dutch's group and Zero fighting.

I haven't seen the ESPN showing yet, but from what I understand Dutch is all over it as well as his buddies. He doesn't seem like someone shy, I think if Zero was his, he'd be promoting it all over the TV and anywhere else he could. But the fact is that he isn't.

Stop the BS, support Zero Rake before it's gone and we're all forced to pay rake again!

Instyle007

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, however, if you had lost a huge amount of money at a poker site ran by dutch boyd, you probably would hate the guy as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe, but I wouldnt be so retarded as to hate any rakefree site just because dutch came up with a similiar idea.

I'm sure dutch plays on partypoker or some such site, maybe we should all hate on that too.

I'd be curious to find out what beer he drinks, so then I can slam that beer every chance I get.

Doesnt dutch like women? guess its time to become a homo, or a drunk wife beater. yeah, thats the plan

[Alobar]

somehow I think even if dutch came out and said he wasnt involved in zerorake no one would believe him.

I also agree, if dutch was involved hed be campaigning for it. Your average player has no idea about pokerspot, they just know hes that genius kid who was in the WSOP last year, and they like him. I actually think the fish would flock to rake free if he ever got it off the ground.

[Mastermmmm]

Coming from someone who is somewhat of a newbee, and has never heard of Dutch or his fraud site, I want to say that I appreciate this thread. I would hate to see someone who was starting a site and was not associated with Dutch get a bad rap, but I would hate more to be one of the 'suckers' who get sucked into a fraud worse.

Thanks again.

[BusterStacks]

Man, you guys are just rediculous sometimes. I mean, why not presume innocent until proven guilty. I dunno about you, but I sure would like to keep my rake. Here is a site that lets you do that, and all you guys do is speculate and throw around hearsay so as to discourage anyone from going to this site. I'd like to know who personally lost ANY money to Dutch's old site. "Uh well not me, but uh... I know this guy who........." Yeah whatever. I don't play at zerorake, but I sure would like it to catch on. Even though I think it won't, why don't you guys encourage this effort. Such haters.

[Inthacup]

why not presume innocent until proven guilty

Because my money is at stake.

I'd like to know who personally lost ANY money to Dutch's old site.

uh MS Sunshine lost over $56,000 and there are several other posters here who lost money at pokerspot.

I'd love to see a rake free site do well because I pay over $10,000 a month in rake at various sites each month but I'm certainly not going to endorse a site until it EARNS a solid, long-term reputation, which ZeroRake has yet to do.


Cup

[daryn]

i don't care either way about zerorake.

but one thing i find funny is that around 95% of the posters that comes here and defend zerorake have less than 20 posts.


some people are idiots, but some aren't.

[BusterStacks]

eh... yeah i guess, but it sure would be cool

[MS Sunshine]

"I'd like to know who personally lost ANY money to Dutch's old site."

Hello, I'm MS Sunshine. Dutch cost my wife and I $55,838. I have two separate problems with what happened. My money was used to fund his business plan. I was naive enough to think that if an internet poker site failed that our money was safe. My main problem is the lie he told saying that the assets would be sold to satisfy the debts if he couldn't pay us. Instead he took the software to use in his next venture. In my book that makes him a liar AND a thief.

By his count, about a 1000 players lost money. Many here did, but most no longer wish to discuss it. It amazes me that ones that still call Dutch the scum-sucking bottom dweller that he is get shi.t from anyone that didn't live thru his mountain of crap.

I would be happy to let this subject die. I'm tired of explaining that I didn't leave this kind of money on ANY poker site, but was foolish to believe a conman's lies. It is true that this money was all winnings, but the time wasted could have made me $30-40K somewhere else. It stressed my marriage and forced us to sell our condo in Vegas so we could restart our internet poker careers in Utah.

I know that Dutch will win in the end. He's young and promotes himself well. I'm older and wish to put and end to this bad period of my life. I'm tired of pointing out that man has no morals to those that don't really know him.

No one should trust him with yesterday's newspaper, nevermind their poker BR. The idea that Dutch could ever have ANYTHING to do an internet poker site again just staggers the mind.

MS Sunshine

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
It stressed my marriage and forced us to sell our condo in Vegas so we could restart our internet poker careers in Utah.


[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone gets the shaft at one time in their life or another. Weather it involves money, health, children or whatever. Hopefully you learned a valuable lesson from leaving your entire bankroll on a poker site. Hopefully you made a 56,000 profit on your condo you were forced to sell in vegas.

Personally, I begin to have caniptions of worry when I have 600 on a site, or when a site takes an extra day to process my withdrawal. 56,000? I don't think I could have lived with myself with that much tied into some poker site.

[Piers]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know who personally lost ANY money to Dutch's old site. "

[/ QUOTE ]

About $300, can't say it bothered me much. Still with so much choice why go with a known failure.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It stressed my marriage and forced us to sell our condo in Vegas so we could restart our internet poker careers in Utah.


[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone gets the shaft at one time in their life or another. Weather it involves money, health, children or whatever. Hopefully you learned a valuable lesson from leaving your entire bankroll on a poker site. Hopefully you made a 56,000 profit on your condo you were forced to sell in vegas.

Personally, I begin to have caniptions of worry when I have 600 on a site, or when a site takes an extra day to process my withdrawal. 56,000? I don't think I could have lived with myself with that much tied into some poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Dikbrain, do a search and fact finding before you open your piehole, MS didn't place or invest 56K into PokerSpot, but he ran his winnings there up to that amount and that is an amount that was owed to him by Dutch Boyd. Read the rest of his post for the specifics.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't care either way about zerorake.

but one thing i find funny is that around 95% of the posters that comes here and defend zerorake have less than 20 posts.


some people are idiots, but some aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent observation that I was going to make myself!

[Instyle007]

I know it's hard for you to understand that people will ACTUALLY post on something they get nothing out of. Only becuase they believe in the idea.

Zero Rake is the next generation of online poker, all of us behind it are because we know how much money the house TAKES from us in rake.

I can play this game too. Dutch Shill! Big rake site shill!

Instyle007

[MS Sunshine]

"I know it's hard for you to understand that people will ACTUALLY post on something they get nothing out of."

You Sir, are full of spamming crap.

MS Sunshine

[Poker Jet]

NEW POINT WITH ZERORAKE THEN....

If it's tied into Action Poker, when are they GOING TO HONOR THE MONIES THAT ACTIONPOKER.COM OWES FROM IT'S OWN BETA TEST, ETC?

[crazy canuck]

Zero Rake is the next generation of online poker, all of us behind it are because we know how much money the house TAKES from us in rake.

So was pokerspot at some point. Also, how come does next generation of poker sites tolerates affilites who advertise using a pyramid scheme?

Also, I'd like a no fee brokerage with zero bid-ask spread and a no juice sportsbook.

Why don't you play at your favourite site, dear i-never-got-a-hard-on-till-I-heard-about-zero-rake? If you do play, what's your username there by the way?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It stressed my marriage and forced us to sell our condo in Vegas so we could restart our internet poker careers in Utah.


[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone gets the shaft at one time in their life or another. Weather it involves money, health, children or whatever. Hopefully you learned a valuable lesson from leaving your entire bankroll on a poker site. Hopefully you made a 56,000 profit on your condo you were forced to sell in vegas.

Personally, I begin to have caniptions of worry when I have 600 on a site, or when a site takes an extra day to process my withdrawal. 56,000? I don't think I could have lived with myself with that much tied into some poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

get a [censored] clue you ass. yeah its totally Ms's fault that the $56k got lost, yeah lets bag on him for it. yeah right you talk about losing $600, you would probably cry if you lost a $20 bill.

just look at pokerstars right now, TheCount1729 has $19,638, $21,509, and $19954 at three tables. what do you think that adds up to? ok look at the guys at the $5000 buy in NL table on UB, especially the guys who have around $15,000+ at the tables, how much deeper do you think their rolls are? hell even pokerstars paid some of the people who went on the carribean adventure into their pokerstars account, this includes daniel n. who had $182,000 in their.

just because you think its dumb doesn't mean it is, it just makes you an [censored] for acting like this after someone has lost this much money.

btw sorry sunshine, didnt really mean to keep digging your whole thing up again, i bet it kinda bugs you each time as you were won of the biggest losers in this and i can tell it annoys you.

[sumdumguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully you learned a valuable lesson from leaving your entire bankroll on a poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]
You could try just a little harder to make friends. You could also make a few bucks really quickly: zerorake might be willing to pay you and every other volounteer ambassador to stop posting. I'm sure what they'd be willing to pay would be a serious boost to your online bankroll. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Daliman]

10k a month? Wow do you play alot.

[Jim Kuhn]

Ms. Sunshine,

Thanks for reminding players about the dangers of unproven sites, especially ones that Russ Boyd may be involved with. I am sure it pains you to discuss this situation. Hopefully, someday Russ will be be taught a lesson regarding honesty and integrity.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4U
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
get a [censored] clue you ass. yeah its totally Ms's fault that the $56k got lost, yeah lets bag on him for it. yeah right you talk about losing $600, you would probably cry if you lost a $20 bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I think it's perfectly fine to lose 56k at a single sight. Right on!!

[Instyle007]

LOL

Instyle007

[Instyle007]

Instyle007