It ain't supposed to happen! (long)

It ain’t supposed to happen. You know it. I know it. The poker gods know it. It ain’t supposed to happen. But it happens. And when it happens, it sucks. Yup I hate it when it happens. I guess, cause it ain’t supposed to happen.

You raise under the gun with AsKs,. This is one of the two out of three times you decide to raise. The game is pretty tough. You see a lot of folks ready to toss their cards. You don’t figure there is any value in limping so you raise. It’s o.k you can play Ace King suited either way. The cut off, a player of mediocre to good ability, three bets. You don’t really like that cause you figure that he needs a pretty big hand to reraise YOU (after all). The big blind calls and that’s something you don’t like either cause he’s probably the second best poker player at the table. That ain’t supposed to happen. Reluctantly you call and don’t four bet. Hey he needs a big hand to reraise you why make things worse by reraising. You’re definitely behind now aren’t you? Oh, well, here comes the flop. K,3,4. You think, “Is this a trap or what”. The BB checks, you bet and sure enough the cutoff raises. When the BB folds you like it. That’s supposed to happen. Finally something good happens in the hand.


The turn is a T and you check. You say to yourself “this is gonna cost me $60 between the turn and river. Then with your face full of displeasure you call the expected bet. This sucks, I mean really sucks. You gotta call don’t you? I mean he just might have A,K also. What do you think he has? You’d put him on a big hand here wouldn’t you? O.K. Maybe he doesn’t have them rockets you are putting him on even though he bet the turn. Maybe you’re right. Let’s see. The river brings a 2. You check and your heart sinks as he loads up and puts two stacks of three red birds in the pot. Now you know your goose is ready for his Thanksgiving. Call, did I say call? Why? Your beat and you know it. He’s got the dreaded American Airlines. Fold, stupid! “Call”, says I and then it happens. The insult to end all insults. He turns up his hand and shows A,J. This mother three bet your UTG raise with A,J. And he got away with it! Yes he made a guffaw and won. God, I hate when that happens. It ain’s supposed to happen. You know it. I know it. The poker gods know it. Everybody knows it. He ain’t supposed to win this hand but he did. He three bet with the Ac,Jc. The Kc,3c came on the flop and the Tc came on the turn. Maybe you should have put him AJ suited when he three bet. I don't know, maybe. Maybe that’s a three bet hand. Maybe, but if you ask me, the only thing I can say is that it ain’t supposed to happen. But it did, just last night at Bellagio’s.


Vince

"The mother three bets your UTG raise with A,J"


But Vince he was suited! (ha! ha!) Furthermore, he was probably playing the player more than his cards. We all know the junky stuff Vince Lepore moves around with! Okay, so you happen to have a hand this time. Plus he had position! Who needs a hand when you have position? Ace-jack suited runs down Ace-king suited. Makes sense to me.

Vince, I am surprised at you! You call THAT long?


Mmmmmm... Let's see... AcJc... He reraised YOUR ass with AcJc???? Is he a moron, or what? Is he playing in the game with two eye-patches, two earplugs, and tape over his mouth? Is he really good at pinball or something? Fer Shame. Tsk Tsk. Oh well, at least there's something guppy-esque in the 15-30 game.


Dave in Cali (in Vegas)

It is supposed to happen. It's exactly what you want to happen. His hand is dominated. You are in the cat's bird seat.He will win his deserved small number of times and you will win as often as you should. I know you know that. I know everybody knows that. But seeing it's true... why be upset? You're not going to win all these match-ups, just your share. He gets the slice, you get the rest of the pie. I can see being pissed when it happens. But to write about it later? A dominated hand won. Whoop-ti-doo!

like the sarcasm in both Vince's post and mine...


my post can be translated to: great! A fish in the 15-30 game! I'll be right down......

i would have lost a few more small bets then check and call after the suited card came. it possible they know they can three bet you and you then become a lamb. dont let that happen.

I think he was playing the player :-) If Vince was stuck, glue on his pants stuck, iron ass stuck, maybe it was an iso raise. He noticed Vince was playing afraid (Vince hates that word)and he could put a move on the afraid player (Vince still hates that word).


You didn't tell us that you were playing against Bob Morgan on this hand too :-)

Vince,


Did you turn soft or something? After reading this post I'm I'm I'm...well forget it. Here is a few things to remember. When you have AK it is much harder for your opponent to have a pair of aces or kings. Don't forget it. So, you should have raised and reraised. Then like Ray says, just call him down on the turn and river if you think he made it. But, don't ever worry about your opponent having aces or kings. It doe's not happen that offen.


Good Luck


Mark

Reading responses here I get the impression that some of you think that I posted this as a bad beat story. Some think I played the hand to weakly. Others think I am whining about my bad luck.


None of these things are true. I believe I played the hand correctly. The third club came on the turn and had it not I would probably have bet. Even though I thought a flush unlikely I had to consider it and went into a check call mode.


My purpose in relaying this hand was not because of the "bad beat" aspects of the game or because I felt these things don't happen frequently nor was it to whine. Although I grant you that it was written in a whiney tone. And that is why I wrote it. I whined during the session when it happened. I whined to myself for a moment and then went on and forgot about it and played poker. But my purpose in writing about this situation was that I found it interesting though not necessarily unusual. Heck I've been three bet by all kinds of hands held by Vegas pros including 3s,5s. In fact that is precisely why I wrote the post. Maybe the 3,5 example would have been better. I do not claim that I was trying to show anyone anything with this hand. I just like to post and thought that this was a good situation to write about. If you gleaned some poker information of value from this situation then fine. If not I'm sorry for wasting your time.


Vince

Vince, you won the most you could have on this hand. I will disagree with Ray Zee on this one -


it is ok to become a lamb when you are 3 bet from your UTG raise, (unless the pot becomes multiway). The reason it is ok is that your hand is so strong most of the time, you are committed to a showdown. Once you are committed to the end, there's no point scaring out lesser hands that would keep bluffing with few outs, and little point in trying to scare out better hands than yours - esp. since you will usually be facing very strong hands yourself, and your opponent will almost never fold a pair to your aggression, and many will not fold AK.


In short, since you are both showdown - committed, you usually do best by trapping out of position.


Dan Z.


Dan Z.

I agree.


While I would now and then play it stronger, in general, I would play it like Vince did. The lion in me comes out in multiway pots. Heads-up, it's not baaaaaa - d to be a lamb.

I disagree with Dan Z. and skp. Ray is correct.


In this situation I like to get the last bet in before the flop. By you making the last bet it creates doubt in your opponents mind about what type of hand you have. Plus, sometimes it will turn your opponent into a lamb and they will give up on the turn if the board is scary or even throw away a hand that could beat. Furthermore, you are telegraphing to the whole table that I am weak.


Good Luck


Mark

Vince Lepore just took gold away from long time champion Mr. Brier. Hey Jim, if everyone keeps screwing it down more than you (i.e. slotbloom) you'll be a loose goose in no time!

I wouldn't quarrel with a 4 bet preflop. My comments on playing passively are directed at the postflop play once it became heads-up.