Shouldn't you be afraid of me? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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StellarWind

07-21-2004, 08:23 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
BB has not been noticeable until now.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (14 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB
Main Pot: 16 BB, between BB and Hero.

jt1

07-21-2004, 08:28 AM

If BB isn't a known LAG then I think it makes more sense to call the turn and river just like you did. If he made his flush then now you know /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

MAxx

07-21-2004, 08:59 AM

I would have raised turn called river. I would have been afraid of you.

Munga30

07-21-2004, 10:20 AM

I don't think you lose much calling down here. Maybe I raise the turn or river, but those were two pretty threatening cards, so calling works. Position loses less and wins more here.

As an aside, I didn't respond to your last post in this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=809248& Forum=f3&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=808425& Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=258&daterange=1&new erval=1&newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev= #Post809248) but you were right. I figured everything had been said so no need to bump it to the top. Thanks for setting me straight.

bdk3clash

07-21-2004, 10:41 AM

I think the fact that you capped the flop and BB still bet into you on the turn makes calling down prudent--I think raising would be reckless, since I doubt you're ahead at this point.

You've got outs against flopped two pair (what the hell, I'll say J8) and not-as-many-outs against a set. A straight is really, really unlikely, but if that's what BB has it's Q/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif.

BB may have 2/images/graemlins/club.gifs + a piece of the flop but I doubt he/she would 3-bet the flop and lead the turn into what is pretty obviously an overpair on your part.

I play it the same, and I'll say BB has J8 or a flopped set.

Side question: Do you raise the river if the board pairs with a:

-J
-8
-4
-T

Does it matter if the river is a /images/graemlins/club.gif or not?

I say it doesn't matter if the river is a club or not, but I wouldn't raise the river if the board paired because you'll get 3-bet if your opponent happened to improve to a boat.

MAxx

07-21-2004, 01:31 PM

Other posters make good points. However, in this spot I prefer to pop the turn. If I am rereraised, then that's when I think it is appropriate to slow down. Withe draws that are out there, you want to charge. Yes you are in trouble against a set. Against 2 pairs, you have 8 outs. IMO, you are giving up to much if you do not pop the turn. Play the cowboys stronger.

StellarWind

07-21-2004, 03:00 PM

Once BB bet the turn I wasn't sure what he had, but it seemed pretty certain that it beat one pair.

Let me observe that raising the turn is not as helpful against a flush draw as it seems. Obviously you lose money when the flush rivers. The point is that you may not gain anything when the flush misses. Anyone who has played a flush draw this aggressively may bluff the river in hopes of folding my overcards or higher flush draw.

Anyone who has seen the other hands I posted knows from the post title that he doesn't have a flush. BB had my nemesis hand of the day, JJ, for top set.