kq second pair

[detruncate]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB is loose/not very aggressive post-flop; MP1 is tight/moderately aggressive

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero ???

This one threw me. What's your flop play and how do you plan to continue?

[Sent]

I think a lot of people would say raise here, and get a free card on the turn if unimproved? Anything wrong with calling here?

-Sent

[DMBFan23]

I'll try some (poor) hand reading...

MP1, the TAG, limped preflop...which means to me that he did not just hit two pair or a set on this flop (maybe if he were tight passive...). he could have a spade connector (something like 89s or T9s, he could have QT suited for the nuts, or he could have Ax of another suit. JTs is a possibility I suppose. for some reason, when a tight player limps, then bets the flop, it really smells like he is betting a draw. is he the type to semibluff?

even if you are behind, you have 2 K's and 4 T's to improve (assuming a K is good - I am assuming a Q is not), about 7-1 against. getting 8.5 to 1 on your call (plus the BB if he comes along), folding isnt an option IMO.

However, I think I like raising, your hand may be best, and you might get the free card. I wish I could make that raise in the heat of the moment though, and I've gotta be honest the current weak tight incarnation of me would probably assume I'm drawing and just call.

[chief444]

If MP1 is tight/moderately aggressive he's probably on a weak suited Ace. A moderately aggressive player raises most hands pf that this flop would hit. I would raise even though I'm likely behind here. You may be able to push a tight player off this hand and you likely have 9 outs (K's, Q's, and T's) if you can eliminate BB.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of people would say raise here, and get a free card on the turn if unimproved? Anything wrong with calling here?

-Sent

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem I run into when just calling is this:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 4.75 BB, won by MP1.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to MP1.</font>

I'm not sure it's a problem as such, but I'm trying to make plays that have a better chance of letting me get futher into the hand before I have to make a decision about whether to fold. For instance, betting the flop and turn with overcards (which frequently lets you see the showdown for free, especially when you're in late position) rather than checking through the turn and having to call the river when someone wakes up and bets. Same 1BB, but I get to the showdown more often without having to put any more money into the pot with no hope to improve.

In this case, I think I might have been able to get through the turn for the price of one more SB if I had raised the flop, which would have given me 2 chances to catch my card. Yeah... I know... free card play... la di da. I guess it's just that concepts are starting to sink in a bit better these days. The tricky part is deciding when to try to apply them.

In the end, I wasn't too unhappy with the call/check/fold strategy, but I suspect that I could have seen the river without paying a BB if I'd been more aggressive on the flop. I'm still a bit tentative at a new limit, but my comfort level is now pretty much what it was at .5/1, so it's time to get back to playing my game.

Thanks for the comments.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (4.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch! No way do I fold here. I think Chief is right that you're likely up against an Ace. If that's the case, you've got up to 9 outs here. I'd call and see the river.

[detruncate]

Yep. Bad move. It's why I posted it. Nothing like a little public shaming to keep it from happening again.

My short term goal is to save 4-5 BB a session in stupid mistakes, which seems easily possible with stuff like this going on.

Now if a certain book would hurry up and get here already...

Bet there's a very happy poker playing customs agent reading my copy right this minute.

Thanks for the input.