Was my thinking wrong

I was on the button in an 8-16 holdem game. An earlier postion player called, a middle position player raised, a late position player reraised, and the cutoff four-bet it (capped). I looked down at my hand to see 7s-6c. My thinking was I am going to get at least four, if not five apponents, and with four bets to go, they will all almost certainly be holding big cards. Figuring that if I didn't get a good flop, I was on the button and could get out without losing any more money. If I got a good flop, I was certain to be the only one in there with those cards. I CALLED! What happened in the hand is irrelevant, but was I right to see the flop for 4 bets?

if youre gambling and the game is real loose (meaning you can recoup pretty easily) and people go too far with their hands then its not the worst thing you can do.


but you really have to recognize that youve moved into total gambling mode.


brad

"Figuring that if I didn't get a good flop, I was on the button and could get out without losing any more money"


You could get out right away without losing any money period.


If I were in a game and saw a player call 4 bets cold with 7-6o, I'd think yum-yum. The more opponents, the more you have to beat and it's much less than 4 or 5 to 1 that 7-6 is going to get the job done.

Now THAT'S gambling. I'd have to muck it. 89s? yeah. not 67o. You're basically looking for a straight, and if you catch the bottom part of one, you're likely facing the top part of it (if you're right that the other 4 opponents have big cards).


The only flops I'd be confident in playing with that hand are 777 and 666.


Let that one go. Let it go.


~D

I'm with Andy. Absent significant evidence to the contrary, if I see somebody call four cold with 76o, I think about calling my wife and saying I'll be home late.


The problem is that hands like 76 need high implied odds to be profitable. That is, you need to sneak in for a *little* and then get paid off big-time if you catch lightning in a bottle. When you're paying four bets up front, your implied odds have gone to hell.


I consider 76o a fairly easy fold on the button for *one* bet. I consider it a fairly easy call on the button for half a bet [1].


Regards, Lee


[1] Quiz: deciding to play 76o for half a bet on the button is not an academic question for me. Why not?

You must be steaming to call four (!) bets cold.

7-6 off just doesn't flop often enough.

I cannot add anything to what Lee and Andy have stated about paying four bets to take a flop with a non-hand like seven-six offsuit. But I want to comment on your statement of:


"Figuring if I didn't get a good flop, I was on the button and could get out without losing any more money."


Is this really true? Suppose you catch middle pair or bottom pair with no other draws. The pot is quite large. How can you not be tempted to take off a card for one bet with all that money now in the pot and having 5 outs to improve. In fact, it may get bet, you call for one bet and then it gets raised. You will be calling that as well since it is only one more small bet and the pot is that much bigger. My point is that you may well get pulled into marginal situations having caught a piece of board with a large pot at stake. So it could easily cost you more money post-flop even if you don't catch a straight draw.

Lee, are you refering to coming into a new game with a blind post behind the button? or possibly when you have just posted a kill on the button after winning two pots in a row? these would be "free plays" unless you are raised, then they would be concidered "half bets"? You would still want to determine a certain amount of customers and position to the raiser etc. before continuing on, no?

like-wise you could flop bottom two pair and easily lose to a higher two pair or str8t by the river at great expence...

More exactly, time charge on button plays.


(Say, Garden City 6-12 w/$3 drop.)

i gotcha... i never played in a time drop game... always a set rake, thanks phil

So we all agree that 76o cannot be played in this position.


But it's clearly not just a question of getting the correct odds right there, winning your fair share etc.


Cold-calling four bets here without a premium hand (of course cold-calling four bets with semi-premium hands like AJ, KQ etc is suicide in these situations) has great deceptive value as well as that as a good player, you *know* what you need to hit (you need to hit the flop VERY, VERY hard), while Aces and Kings and the rest of the crew won't know what hit them when the flop comes 4-5-6 or 7-7-3. And you have position to boot.


76s in the same situation? Perhaps suited doesn't even make that much difference here, since big suited cards are likely to be out in capped, semi-family pots.


lars

Deceptive value is, IMO, overrated. Otherwise, why not play 7-2o, surely no one would put you on that hand. I'd rather deceive my opponents by playing a strong hand weak than a weak hand strong. As for position, well one guy had a hand strong enough to raise, another strong enough to reraise and another strong enough to 3-bet. Posistion is worth jack if you have 7-6.


Sure, 5-4-3 will flop once every eight hours or so, and you'll flop trips every once in a while. But routinely calling capped pots with 7-6 means you'll probably get broke long before you hit a flop perfectly.

Even in the sb the 76o is a loser with a small number of players in the pot. With one limper, you are getting 5 to 1 on your call and, as you stated, this hand is much worse than that.