Credit where credit is due

[Usul]

With all this talk about the "poker boom", a thing occured to me. All this attention given to poker, specifically Texas Hold 'Em, can be traced back to one singular event in human evolution.

The year was 1998 and the world was about to be changed forever. Yes, it was at that fateful time in all of our lives when we were to find ourselves in the middle of a poker revolution. The movie was called Rounders and the world was never quite the same...

Seriously, how many players here took up playing, or took up playing seriously because of the inspiring performences of Matt Damon and Ed Norton? Myself for sure, and a gentleman by the name of Chris Moneymaker for another. We all know what he has done for the quality of angling in all of our lives.

So I say this. Give credit where credit is due. I believe Rounders is single handedly responsible for this "poker boom" we have all enjoyed. Let us pay our respects to this masterpiece of American Cinema.

[Barry]

I don't think so, most folks found out about Rounders after they started playing. It wasn't that good of a movie.

The only good thing is that you don't hear many Rounders quotes at the tables anymore.

[Usul]

[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't that good of a movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expertly written, expertly acted. Brilliant all around. Even if you didn't like the movie you still wanted to kick Worm's ass. Saying Rounders "wasn't that great" is like saying the Bible was a "below average" book.

[TheGrifter]

The bible was a below average book.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
Saying Rounders "wasn't that great" is like saying the Bible was a "below average" book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh.

Come on, tell me both of them don't have totally predictable endings.

The only thing that could have saved that movie would've been a DADV scene with Gretchen Mol. And even then it would have been borderline.

NT

[Usul]

Gimme Famke Jansen anyday. The only bad part of that movie is when Mikey doesn't screw her brains out. I'm holding out for that scene in the "special edition".

[astroglide]

what is dadv?

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on, tell me both of them don't have totally predictable endings

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read the end of the bible? 8-headed dragon (or is it 3?), whore of Babylon, etc...

Maybe you saw it coming, but I sure didn't.

P.S. I loved Rounders; it got me serious about poker. But let's face it - as a film it was marginal.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
The only good thing is that you don't hear many Rounders quotes at the tables anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but when you do hear them, you know it's going to be a good game. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Redmen62]

A guy named Astroglide is not familiar with DADV?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

It wasn't that good of a movie.


I don't know. The poker parts were sort of stupid, but the movie itself was OK. Norton gave his usual excellent performance, and Malkovich, Turturro, and Landau were solid as well.

Not a classic by any stretch, but in the top 1/3 of what Hollywood puts out these days.

BTW - when will you be down in Indian Country again?

[Daliman]

Here is where my expertise in typing with one hand pays off...


DADV= Double anal, Double Vaginal.

[Usul]

It received two thumbs up, the definitive measure of any film.

[Barry]

That is Soooo true! It's as good as an indicator as a young guy with a ball cap and shades on.

[Barry]

With summer here, I try to spend most of my time outside. I should be back down there sometime in the next few weeks though. I'll PM you and let you know.

BTW - How's it back at the daily grind?

[TimTimSalabim]

Masterpiece of American cinema? Or a movie filled with inaccuracies and total misrepresentations of what constitutes a winning poker player? I'll let the viewer decide.

[lostinthought]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so, most folks found out about Rounders after they started playing. It wasn't that good of a movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello? The most recent poker explosion was after 1998. That's what this guy is talking about. Wake up old man.

I think you are underestimating how many young impressionable high school/college age kids saw this movie, saw the WSOP on ESPN shortly afterwards, WPT, and started playing poker.

There has to be some correlation between the three, the advertising of online poker during the television shows, and how great the games are online right now.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is where my expertise in typing with one hand pays off...


DADV= Double anal, Double Vaginal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am proud to say I did not know this is what "DADV" meant.

Moreover, and with my curiosity piqued, I'm wondering exactly how Mike might have pulled this off.

I mean, I must have missed the part of the movie that showed Mike in the nursery as a child, a team of pediatrists huddled around him, shaking their heads.

As long as it has come up, why would a man want to have sex with a woman at the same time as another man??!

Blecchh.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
what is dadv?

[/ QUOTE ]

DADV is absolutely nothing. Now DVDA on the other hand stands for Double Vaginal Double Anal, and was pioneered in the movie "orgasmo" which is a way better movie than rounders. I still like rounders tho.

[baggins]

[ QUOTE ]
Masterpiece of American cinema? Or a movie filled with inaccuracies and total misrepresentations of what constitutes a winning poker player? I'll let the viewer decide.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would posit that the inaccuracies and misrepresentations that occurred in Rounders - in order to tell a more dramatic, mass-friendly story - coupled with TV Poker editing and the real American Dream of getting Something for Nothing are what may be largely influential in the poker boom we are experiencing. the movie, while not singlehandedly deserving of all the accolades, could well be considered a catalyst. and I think that's more what the original poster was getting at. and I would have to agree on most counts. sure, there are a lot of other factors that have contributed, but the movie - like it or not - is largely responsible.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
The poker parts were sort of stupid, but the movie itself was OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, watch a movie like "Shade" or "Maverick" if you want to see some bad cinematic poker.

In "Shade," people talk about "buying" pots by simply betting more money than the other player has at the table. This supposedly wins you the pot automatically.

Seriously.

[M2d]

hey, I go to cardrooms because I hope to see Famke Janssen working the brush/cage/floor.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

WPT on Travel Channel + ADvertisements for online poker rooms = Current Poker Boom

[Barry]

Old man?? Do you wear a cap and sunglasses at the table or are you too young to get in to a casino?

OK fine. My point is that the internet got the poker boom going more than any other factor. The WPT sent it over the top.
Afterwards they watched the "authentic" poker movie.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The poker parts were sort of stupid, but the movie itself was OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, watch a movie like "Shade" or "Maverick" if you want to see some bad cinematic poker.

In "Shade," people talk about "buying" pots by simply betting more money than the other player has at the table. This supposedly wins you the pot automatically.

Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Aside from Teddy's 'cookie' tell, I don't think there was anything that poor about the poker playing in rounders.

[jwvdcw]

I agree with the initial post

[SmileyEH]

I for one was turned on to poker by watching rounders this january. I had already seen the world series of poker but it didnt really strike me as a game I would be fascinated with.
The academic and calculating approach Mike D's character had toward poker - combined with his more thrilling moments playing HU NL - was what really drew me. A skill game where you make money? Count me in!

-SmileyEH

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


Agreed. Aside from Teddy's 'cookie' tell, I don't think there was anything that poor about the poker playing in rounders.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about the fact that the main character (mikey) is a crappy player. This has all been gone over in other threads numerous times, but you can shoot the poker scenes so full of holes it isnt even funny. Don't get me wrong, I think its a really good movie, but as far as the poker content goes, its really bad.

[Big O]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe Rounders is single handedly responsible for this "poker boom" we have all enjoyed.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. Poker exploded because of the WPT and WSOP on TV.

I could find a seat at a casino no problem from 1998 to 2002. Now its near to impossible to get a seat within an Hour

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Aside from Teddy's 'cookie' tell, I don't think there was anything that poor about the poker playing in rounders.


[/ QUOTE ]


what about his little hand-reading bit at Landeau's stud-game??

[TimTimSalabim]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Aside from Teddy's 'cookie' tell, I don't think there was anything that poor about the poker playing in rounders.


[/ QUOTE ]


what about his little hand-reading bit at Landeau's stud-game??

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. A bunch of bad players who call and never raise, yet the hero walks in and knows what everyone's holding. One of many misrepresentations about poker. And what's this crap about how the same players make the final table at the WSOP every year? It wasn't anywhere close to being true even in 1998.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Aside from Teddy's 'cookie' tell, I don't think there was anything that poor about the poker playing in rounders.


[/ QUOTE ]


what about his little hand-reading bit at Landeau's stud-game??

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. A bunch of bad players who call and never raise, yet the hero walks in and knows what everyone's holding. One of many misrepresentations about poker. And what's this crap about how the same players make the final table at the WSOP every year? It wasn't anywhere close to being true even in 1998.

[/ QUOTE ]

I file this under "willing suspension of disbelief." Mike is supposed to be an amazing reader, and this scene was meant to illustrate that.

Sure, it's ridiculous, but it's a movie. The hero is supposed to be larger than life. Besides, I think it encourages new (ie: terrible) players to try really hard to "read" their opponents and "make plays," usually to their disadvantage.

I agree that the cookie tell is dumb, but for a different reason: Because Mike gives away the fact that he's picked up on the tell. C'mon. You're going to tell a guy that he's got an obvious tell like that?

He explains in the movie that he "doesn't have time to sit there and break him slowly," so he reveals the tell to "put him on tilt."

That's pretty stupid.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Agreed. Aside from Teddy's 'cookie' tell, I don't think there was anything that poor about the poker playing in rounders.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about the fact that the main character (mikey) is a crappy player. This has all been gone over in other threads numerous times, but you can shoot the poker scenes so full of holes it isnt even funny. Don't get me wrong, I think its a really good movie, but as far as the poker content goes, its really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can explain or point me to one of these threads, it'd be appriciated.

[Daliman]

Rounders has the best poker content of any movie in which poker is a main theme.

Unfortunately, that's not saying much.

The best poker scene ever though, is in "The Sting"

[knifeandfork]

the gf buys movies like they are going out of style so anything ive heard a smidgeon of goodness about we buy. thus was the case with rounders. when i first watched the movie i couild not have told you the rank of hands (99'), and didnt understand what the tell was from kgb or that laying down top two meant he was folding his hand. but i stillthought the movie was very entertaining, (i didnt need to know what mike meant when heflopped top two with aces and 9s) i stilldont understand when kanish says that mike needs 60,000 to play in a 300-600 but maybe im missing something. I started playing not because of the wpt or rounders but because i liked to gamble and one of my best firends played .25/,50 limit holdem at his house and 10 bucks was ok to lose. then i watched rounders again, then my friend went to AC and won like 250 playing 2/4 then i read ppltp (helmuths book). then i started winning. is helmuths book great in the scheme of poker books? no, its terrible but does it give a new player solid starting advice and something to think about/judge their actions on? yes.now when i watch rounders i can appreciate the finer details that the general non playing public doesnt understand or need to understand(to enjoy the film). the bottom line is rounders has got to be the best poker movie since the 'kid and it has brought numerous people to the tables. and think about this next time a 25 year quotes teddy, who would you rather play QQ against heads up in a nl pot with a raggedy k hig flop, the youngster or his grandfather? let me play against granpa everytime. i still dont know if teddy had a set of tens or not but ill watch until im sure one way or the other not 98% sure 99.44% sure. posters dissing rounders is the reason why some people like rpg, you dam elitists just think you know it all. rounders is a good flick and watch out for the youngster next time he probably did his homework
jason
btw currently lifetime winner in .25/.50 and 5/10 nlhe:)
end rant

[Fitz]

My old friend Barry; I hope all is well with you. Things are picking up here as well.

Rounders, I actually saw that movie in a theatre in a casino. Ameristar, formerly Station, has a theatre on the property here in KC. I was already playing hold 'em, but I saw the movie with my cousin who had never played. He was so inspired, we went directly from the movie to the poker room.

I agree, all the Rounders clones at the tables are aggravating, but I think you do have to give the movie credit for drawing attention to poker in general and hold 'em specifically. I think it was a first step in a series of events that has "legitimized" and popularized poker in the minds of the general public. The most recent steps in this progression has been the WPT and the coverage of the WSOP. The general public is much more likely to give credence something they see on TV. (The danger of that is something we could all debate at length.)

I think much of this can trace it's roots back to Rounders. The characters in the movie were presented in a way we would accept. Mike is a bright, charming kid who is savant like in his abilities at the table. He is on a "respectable" path to being a lawyer when circumstances make him our hero and make us accept that he must follow his dream. Worm is the rogue and hustler who most people associate with gambling, but they also make us understand he has been a faithful friend to Mike who took the heat for him so he could go on to law school. Even KGB is shown as an honorable mobster. In the end, he insists Mike be allowed to leave with his winnings. Somehow, I think Tony Soprano would have let Gamma crack his skull and take his roll.

Is Rounders a great movie? No, but it is entertaining, and it was the first in a series of events that have come together to make poker more popular than ever. I wonder what it will be like when the boom subsides. Will we all refer to this time as "Good Ole days"?

Good luck all,

Fitz

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I am a big fan of the movie "Rounders," although I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it was a great story, and had a lot of drama. It also does capture some of the things that virtually every poker player will face at one time or another, particularly going broke from taking a shot at too big a game. On the other hand, it portrays poker players as somewhat shifty and shady, which is generally less true in the real world life of casino poker. Of course those who focus on the negative aspects of players portrayed in the film are probably not going to play anyway, and those who like the film are more likely to play now. So there is something to your supposition that Rounders "started it all."

However, I think the current boom is FAR more attributable to the WPT and ESPN broadcasting the hole cards of players than it is to the movie Rounders.

al

[SpiderMnkE]

I agree... Rounders helped... WPT and WSOP launched

Was that dude called Gamma... I always thought he was "Grandma"... haha

I would just go look it up on IMDB.. but that is blocked by.. Surf Control... somehow this forum is not.. go figure... and thank the lord