De Niro or Pacino?

[nicky g]

Who's best? (I'm bored). I vote Al.

[nicky g]

Booo De Niro voter. Actually, Al Pacino is by far and away my favourite movie star. I don;t recall a recent "best actor" thread and we've had everything else so if anyone wants to add theirs, please do. Also a big Johnny Depp and James Mason fan. If I could be anyone I think it'd be James Mason (in terms of cool, not life experience).

[Clarkmeister]

I prefer Pacino, but objectively I think De Niro has done more and shown far more range. Frankly, I like Al best when he is playing Al, if you know what I mean.

[nicky g]

I agree that De Niro has shown more range but he's also shown much worse judgement and really lost it a good while back. Al admittedly only has two modes - shouty (Heat, Scent of a Woman) and intense/quiet (Godfather, Donnie Brasco), but I always find him more interesting to watch. I never much care what happens to a DeNiro character, cool as he is. He's a great tragic actor IMO. DeNiro is the better antihero.

[theBruiser500]

"he's also shown much worse judgement and really lost it a good while back"

what does this mean or refer to?

[nicky g]

De Niro was great in Mean S treetsand realy good in a lot of other films (mostly Scorcese ones) in the seventies. Contrast with recent garbage such as Rocky and Bullwinkle, The Score, Flawless etc. I can't think of a really good film he's been in since Casino, and few decent ones stretching a while before that.

[sfer]

DeNiro, but this one is very, very close.

[sfer]

Heat came out a couple of weeks after Casino and DeNiro was fantastic in that.

[Uston]

Al Pacino hasn't done a ton of recent garbage? Are you kidding?

[elwoodblues]

Meet the Parents was fantastic.

[nicky g]

I didn't say that; he's done some bad stuff but IMO DeNiro has done more, dating further back, and has been more sustained. Also Pacino has been good in several bad films, while DeNiro has just been on autopilot. Pacino has made some poor picks but DeNiro seems to have long given up any concern in choosing a film other than getting paid.

[nicky g]

He was pretty good in that, but nothing special. But yeah, of course that was a great film.

[nicky g]

I didn't see it. But I can't see that either actors could be fantastic, that is to say really pull off their goodstuff, in a light comedy.

[nicky g]

I didn't see it. But I can't see that either actors could be fantastic, that is to say really pull off their goodstuff, in a light comedy.

[Uston]

They've both been whores for awhile now. My biggest gripe with Pacino is that he's played the same character in just about every movie he's done since Scent Of A Woman.

[adios]

.........

[astroglide]

dog day afternoon

[ThaSaltCracka]

I picked Pacino because he is simply awesome. I love TheGodfather, Scarface, Carlito's Way, Devils Advocate and how can I forget Glengarry Glen Ross. DeNiro to is awesome, but lets be honest, he has made some really shitty movies lately... Showtime, Analyze This and That, City by the Sea, The Score was a huge disapointment. I would agree he hasn't done anything real good since Casino.

Personally I enjoy Pacino's intenseness.
Ricky Roma: They say that is was so hot in the city today, grown men were walking up to cops on street corners begging them to shoot.

[WEASEL45]

link (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/simmons/020926.html)


Q: My friends and I loved the "Cheers" vs. "Seinfeld" debate that you wrote a couple of months ago. But what about the ultimate Dr. Jack breakdown: Pacino vs. De Niro?
-- Rob Adams, Boston

SG: I'll be honest ... this question sat in my "Potential Mailbag Questions" file for an entire summer. I was afraid to answer it. Wouldn't you be afraid? Pacino vs. De Niro? The two most famous, influential actors of the past 30 years? I feel like I'm about to walk on Mars ... I probably won't return safely, but I can't resist.

All right, let's break this down, Dr. Jack-style:


Robert De Niro became Jake LaMotta, but he couldn't knock out Al Pacino's Michael Corleone.
Breakthrough performance -- Pacino with Michael Corleone in "The Godfather"; De Niro with Young Vito Corleone in "Godfather II." Yikes. Pacino's part was more important, only because Michael evolved as a character from "good-hearted, wide-eyed pup" to "evil mob boss" in the span of three hours, and the scene where he kills Solazzo and McCloskey at Louis' Ristorante has to rank among the most difficult scenes to pull off. If Pacino choked with that part, "Godfather I" would have failed miserably.

As for De Niro, his performance in "Godfather II" was incredible -- he actually made you believe that he was the young Marlon Brando playing the young Vito Corleone. Read that sentence again. But it was a supporting part ... the movie could have survived without a home run performance from him. And remember, Coppola auditioned both Pacino and De Niro for Michael's part when he was casting "The Godfather," with Pacino winning out. That's just enough to give him the nod. EDGE: PACINO.

Defining performance -- "Godfather II" for Pacino, "Raging Bull" for De Niro (the two most important performances by a male actor in the past 30 years). De Niro learned how to box, he gained 60 pounds ... I mean, he became Jake LaMotta.

But I'm still going with Pacino here, only because that's the one movie where I always think to myself, "Good God, he is absolutely amazing in this" every time I watch it. Just an electric performance from start to finish, like watching Pedro at his peak: Four pitches working, 98 mph fastball, everything for strikes. The scene where Diane Keaton tells him about her abortion, and Pacino's face starts to shake ... that's an absolute acting clinic. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. SLIGHT EDGE: PACINO.

Consistency -- Pacino's prime lasted from 1972 ("The Godfather") through 1983 ("Serpico," "Godfather II," "Dog Day Afternoon," "And Justice For All," "Cruising," "Scarface"), with a resurgence for most of the '90s ("Godfather III," "Scent of a Woman," "Carlito's Way," "Heat," "The Insider," "Any Given Sunday"). I always thought that "Scent of a Woman"'s success was the worst thing that could have happened to him -- after he won the Oscar, he basically played the "Scent of a Woman" guy in every movie after that. Hoo-hah!!!!!

De Niro's prime lasted much longer -- initially from 1974 ("Godfather II") through 1980 ("Taxi Driver," "The Deer Hunter," "Raging Bull"), with a resurgence in the late-'80s ("The Untouchables," "Midnight Run," "Awakenings," "Goodfellas," "Cape Fear," "This Boy's Life," "Bronx Tale," "Casino," "Heat"), and then another resurgence in the late-'90s when he started doing comedies ("Analyze This," "Meet the Parents"). Just a more interesting, consistent, complete body of work, capped off by his improbable comedy success over these last few years (much like Barry Bonds improbably finishing his 30s by belting 73 homers one season and hitting .375 the next).


Over-the-Top Pacino was past his prime in "Any Given Sunday."
Put it this way: If you were trapped on a desert island and could import all of De Niro's movies or all of Pacino's movies, you'd probably pick De Niro (unless you couldn't live without "Scarface" and "Godfather I"). Just more to choose from. EDGE: De NIRO.

Believability as a cop -- Pacino was more believable as a detective; De Niro was more believable as a cop. So why didn't somebody write a movie where Pacino (as a detective) and De Niro (as a cop) banded together to solve a crime? Frankly, I have no idea. EDGE: TIE.

Most admirable misfire -- De Niro as a stalker comedian in "King of Comedy" (he just couldn't pull it off); Pacino as a Cuban drug dealer in "Scarface" (you forget, that movie absolutely bombed when it came out). Which movie will you remember 20 years from now? BIG EDGE: PACINO.

Range -- De Niro in a walk, mainly because he could throw anything at you -- Funny De Niro, Deadpan De Niro, Scary Mobster De Niro, Quiet Cop De Niro, Intense De Niro, Crazy Cop De Niro, Just Plain Crazy De Niro, Athletic De Niro, Killer De Niro, Quirky De Niro, Kindhearted DeNiro and so on. Pacino could only offer Quiet Cop Pacino, Abrasive Cop Pacino, Brooding Pacino, Crazy Pacino, Intense Pacino, Scary Pacino and Over-the-Top Pacino. There was never really Funny Pacino, unless we're talking in the Unintentional Comedy sense. Ironically enough, neither of them could pull off Romantic Pacino or Romantic De Niro (it always felt uncomfortable).

Four performances from the latter part of De Niro's career really set him apart: 1) "Midnight Run" (genuinely funny, genuinely likable, carried the movie on sheer personality, his most underrated performance), 2) "This Boy's Life" (as the meanspirited stepfather), 3) "Bronx Tale" (as the likable bus driver), and 4) "Heat" (without having much to work with -- that bank robber was a blank slate). I'm not sure Pacino could have pulled off any of those roles. EDGE: De NIRO.

(And that reminds me ...)

The Switch -- If you switched their careers and had Pacino play all of De Niro's parts, and vice-versa, who would have done a better job? De Niro wouldn't have nailed any of Pacino's over-the-top parts ("Scent of a Woman," "Heat," "And Justice For All"), and I can't imagine him pulling off the quiet, conflicted-about-possibly-being-gay police officer infiltrating the Manhattan gay scene in "Cruising" (it would have played like an "SNL" skit). He definitely would have taken Tony Montana and Michael Corleone somewhere (maybe not the same heights, but somewhere). And I think he matches anything else.

But Pacino with De Niro's parts? None of the comedy roles would have worked. "Cape Fear" and "Raging Bull" wouldn't have worked. He couldn't have played the young Vito Corleone. He probably could have handled the mob parts and most of the cop parts, and the only movie he would have improved was "King of Comedy." It just wouldn't have worked as well as De Niro with Pacino's career. EDGE: De NIRO.

Ability to avoid unintentional comedy -- Pacino takes the cake here. Ellen Barkin groping him in "Sea of Love," the dancing scenes in "Cruising" and "Scarface," the "She's got a great ass!" scene in Heat ... the list is endless. De Niro never made you laugh unless it was intentional. EDGE: De NIRO.

Most improbable character that somehow worked -- "Cape Fear" was one of those movies that you only watched once (a little too disturbing, a little too disorienting), but De Niro transformed himself for the role of Max Cady -- ripped body, long hair, Southern accent, tattoos, the works. Ten minutes into the movie, you didn't even remember that it was him. I got you now!

As for Pacino, he was handed one of the most impossible parts ever -- play a swaggering drug dealer with no redeeming qualities, adopt a Cuban accent, say everything from the side of your mouth, drop F-bombs every few minutes, have your character slowly become a coked-up maniac as the movie drags along, carry every single scene you're in, do everything in the most over-the-top fashion possible, and somehow keep the audience rooting for you in the final 20 minutes -- and somehow pulled it off, singlehandedly making "Scarface" one of the signature pop culture movies of the past 20 years.

And if you don't like it ... well, (bleep) you, how's that? EDGE: PACINO.

Shamelessness about selling out -- Hey, it's not like Pacino hasn't taken a few roles just for cash ("The Devil's Advocate," "Godfather III," "Simone" and "Dick Tracy," to name four). But he always picked his spots, at least until recently, and every Pacino movie always managed to feel like an event, even if it sucked.

Not De Niro. The way he sold out over the past 15 years has almost been jarring: "15 Minutes," "Rocky and Bullwinkle," "Showtime," "The Fan," "Frankenstein," "Marvin's Room," "Great Expectations" and "Backdraft," as well as a number of below-average films that he inexplicably accepted ("Stanley and Iris," "Mad Dog and Glory," "Guilty By Suspicion," "Night and the City," "We're No Angels"). Bob, feel free to say no every once in a while. It's okay. BIG EDGE: PACINO.

Most influential line on pop culture -- De Niro has "You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?"; Pacino has "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." Which one do you use more? I thought so. EDGE: PACINO.

Wild card -- My buddy Gus (who's legally changing his name to "My Buddy Gus" next month) pointed this one out: In Pacino's movies, there's always a definitive scene that you remember, one of those Pacino Scenes where he basically tells the director, "When I'm finished with this take, we'll just send it right to the Oscar committee" (like the "I woulda taken a FLAME THROWER to this place!" from "Scent of a Woman,' or the final locker room speech in "Any Given Sunday"). No matter how bad the movie, Pacino always has that one memorable scene (even in "Devil's Advocate," which may have been the worst two hours of my life).

De Niro just isn't that type of actor; he's always better in understated scenes (like the scene in "Midnight Run" when he goes to borrow money from his ex-wife). If they were pitchers, De Niro would be Greg Maddux (steady and brilliant) and Pacino would be Randy Johnson (you never know what he's capable of next). Whatever the case, I think Pacino gets a small edge here, only because a collage of his best scenes would be more fun to watch than a collage of De Niro's best scenes. EDGE: PACINO.

Head-to-head matchup -- As we all know, Pacino and DeNiro shared one major scene together, the diner scene in "Heat," one of the five or six most exciting moments of my life as a movie fan (I still remember seeing it for the first time, thinking to myself, "Good God, is this really happening?"). That's also one of those rare scenes in a movie where you're flicking channels, you know it's coming up soon, and you'll hang around for 15 minutes just until it comes on ... and after watching that scene roughly 73,456 times on cable over the last seven years, I'm giving De Niro a slight edge.

Here's why ...

It was dead-even right until the end. Pacino did his "Brotha, you are going down" routine. De Niro did his "There's a flip side to that coin ... what if I have to take you down?" routine. And it was a dead heat. Both of them hit it out of the park. Except right at the end, Pacino broke into a slight smile, almost like he couldn't handle the moment -- either it was too intense, or he couldn't believe the scene just happened. Either way, it's always bothered me. His character never would have smiled in that scene at that particular moment. It didn't add up. And it was just enough to give De Niro the win. SLIGHT EDGE: De NIRO.

My stepfather's take -- Three things you need to know about my stepdad: 1) He's 100 percent Italian, 2) his favorite movies of all-time are "Godfather 1," "Godfather 2," "Scarface," "Analyze This," "Goodfellas," "Bronx Tale," and "And Justice For All," and 3) his two favorite actors are Pacino and De Niro. Going to him for a Pacino-De Niro breakdown was like going to Bob Ryan for the definitive take on Bird vs. Magic.

Anyway, I couldn't decide between the two of them, so I turned the decision over to him. Here's what he said:

"DeNiro vs. Pacino? (silence) Oh, boy. I don't think you want to do this. (More silence) Oh. Jeez. (More silence) You have to pick one? (Dead silence) Why would you want to do this? You can't win either way."

(After some prodding ...)

"(Bleep) ... I'd go with De Niro. Most of Pacino's best stuff came out 20 and 30 years ago ... De Niro keeps coming out with quality stuff. But that's no knock on Pacino ..."

(And he defended Pacino for the next five minutes.)

Final verdict: De Niro. Barely.

[scotnt73]

[ QUOTE ]
I picked Pacino because he is simply awesome. I love TheGodfather, Scarface, Carlito's Way, Devils Advocate and how can I forget Glengarry Glen Ross. DeNiro to is awesome, but lets be honest, he has made some really shitty movies lately... Showtime, Analyze This and That, City by the Sea, The Score was a huge disapointment. I would agree he hasn't done anything real good since Casino.

Personally I enjoy Pacino's intenseness.
Ricky Roma: They say that is was so hot in the city today, grown men were walking up to cops on street corners begging them to shoot.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly. Pacinio hands down. De Niro scares me more though.

[WEASEL45]

Devils advocate was the worst movie of all time IMO. i thought keanu reeves rubbed off on him

[theBruiser500]

That long analysis says Marvin's Room is a junky movie, what?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Devils advocate was the worst movie of all time IMO. i

[/ QUOTE ] You have terrible taste. There is easily a million movies worse than that one. Besides, Pacino was awesome in it. His character is so..... dirty. I mean, he literally seems like the devil in the movie. Such a con man, but not only does he con you, he stabs you in the back while he does it. Pacino is the only reason to see that movie, but atleast it is a reason to see that movie, and if that is his worst movie than DeNiro's worst movies are even that much more worse. Showtime has to be one of the dumbest movies I have ever seen. ZERO comedy...ZERO...


DeNiro may only win this simply because he has been in more movies, many of which have been good, but remember those movies weren't neccesarily good just because he was in it. Almost every good movie he has been in had an excellent supporting cast, with the exception of maybe Taxi Driver( which I personally didn't like).

[Uston]

Yeah, but what's Pacino's funniest movie? I'm guessing it doesn't approach Midnight Run.

[wayabvpar]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but what's Pacino's funniest movie? I'm guessing it doesn't approach Midnight Run.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta be in my top 20 fav movies of all time.

As for the debate, I have always been a DeNiro fan. Goodfellas is such a great flick, and he had a lot to do with why it was so good.

Not that I don't like Pacino as well, but the Sports Guy's stepdad is right- most of Pacino's good stuff is 20-30 years old now.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but what's Pacino's funniest movie

[/ QUOTE ]
Scarface, he has some of the funniest lines in that movie.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Apparently the Sports Guy is now a film critic, but I digress.... I am not sure how anyone can comment on Pacino without seeing him in Glengarry Glen Ross. I realize this is a film overlooked by many, but it has some of the best acting and dialogue ever in a movie.

Cast:
Jack Lemmon .... Shelley Levene
Al Pacino .... Ricky Roma
Ed Harris .... Dave Moss
Alan Arkin .... George Aaronow
Kevin Spacey .... John Williamson
Alec Baldwin .... Blake
Jonathan Pryce .... James Lingk

easily one of Lemmons best performances and Pacino is of course excellent.

[WEASEL45]

i never said he was a film critic or if you disagree with him you are stupid, i just thought it was an intersting take

[ThaSaltCracka]

it is.

[Uston]

easily one of Lemmons best performances and Pacino is of course excellent.

Alec Baldwin's finest hour by an enormous margin, too.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Alec Baldwin's finest hour

[/ QUOTE ]
Are these words allowed to appear in such close proximity?

[ThaSaltCracka]

oh man, you must see this movie, he is awesome in it as well, although he is only in about 15 minutes of the movie.

[daryn]

pacino is my all time favorite actor also

[wayabvpar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alec Baldwin's finest hour

[/ QUOTE ]
Are these words allowed to appear in such close proximity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Baldwin is EXCELLENT in The Cooler, which was nearly as shocking as seeing the better part of William H. Macy's nether region. /shudder

[riverflush]

Al Pacino was in Gigli - that might have been the last straw for me. He's a great actor, but - like DeNiro - has made some really bad decisions lately. DeNiro wins on the merit of his depth (the good depth).

[Ray Zee]

they both just play themselves over and over in different movies.

[ThaSaltCracka]

he had a small part in Gigli. DeNiro on the other hand, headlined several bombs.

[astroglide]

how did you know pacino was in gigli? i'm disappointed, but frankly i'm more disappointed with you.

[ThaSaltCracka]

follow these directions genius.

1. go to Google.com
2. Look up Al Pacino
3. Click on first link
4. Look at list of movies he is appeared in, its #6....

now that wasn't so hard, and by the way if you were trying to insinuate I have seen the movie, sorry, but I hate J-Lo and Affleck is a fuckin tool, so that would be a no. /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[theBruiser500]

Glengary Glen Ross is an awesome movie.

[astroglide]

now i'm only further disappointed by your complete lack of a sense of humor.

[Michael Vronsky]

I voted DeNiro - can't top him in GodfatherII.

[nicky g]

Oh well, De Niro wins it by a mile. /images/graemlins/frown.gif He's awesome though, so I can handle it.

I'm hoprrified to hear that Pacino put in a cameo in Gigli. I can;t agree though with several people's comments that Al Pacino's best stuff was all 20-30 years ago. OK his very very best stuff was - Godfather 1&2, Dog Day Afternoon. Nothing he's done beats those. But that's true of DeNiro as well - nothing he's done matches mean Streets, or to a lesser extent Taxi Driver. But Pacino put in some really excellent performances in the 90s and after - Donnie Brasco (one of my all time favourites), The Insider, Carlito's Way. I also thin Pacino won the day in Heat - a bit too much shoutiness, yes, but he puts in a proper performance whereas De niro just understatedly mumbles thorugh the film. That's not to say he's not good - he's DeNiro, he can do that, but Pacino is all over him (and even some of the shouty stuff is good: "You can ball my wife, you can sit in my living room, but you do NOT get to watch my f%cking TV! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). I'll make the point again that Pacino has been really good in bad movies, whereas DeNiro sleepwalks through them (and is occasionally pretty cheesy), and that Paciono has also been great in a lot of good, more or less ignored films too (eg Sea of Love).
Anyway, hurray for them both and let's hope for a return to form soon.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
they both just play themselves over and over in different movies.

[/ QUOTE ]


that's true to some extent. just like AC DC really only has one song.

problem is, i like that song.

[Rooster71]

[ QUOTE ]
Who's best? (I'm bored). I vote Al.

[/ QUOTE ]
42-10....Go DeNiro!