proper use of Semi-Bluff; or should I have done it on the flop

[flair1239]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 6.75 BB, won by Hero.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to Hero.[/color

[Riposte]

I would raise the flop to try and get the CO to fold, and put more money in the pot since you will win these hands often enough to make a profit.

Good raise on the turn.

[Matty]

Why did you raise the turn?

This guy raised the flop after you raised preflop. He obviously has something and you have nothing.

If you really need to be that aggressive, do it on the flop.

[Gally327]

I agree with Grey. In hindsight it looked to me like you got the most out of that pot as humanly possible, however, I don't think you're use of a semi-bluff here was apropraite. A semi-bluff raise gains it profitability from the chances that your opponents may fold. The chances of them folding in this situation enough to make this a good play are not in your favor. The fact that the raiser showed strength on the flop after your pre flop raise was a sign that he had a hand. Someone oervcalling that bet also is a sign of strength. But the turn card was not a scare card for him really so I don't see how he thought you improved. You calling might have gotten him scared of a slowplay and then you raising on the turn made a slowplay look really probable. I don't think this play is profitable in the long term. Your Semi-Bluff would have looked good if you saw some weakness from the table and took the pot by being the agressor with a chance to improve if called. I would have to really know my opponents in order to make that play, especially in a low limit internet game.
Lata Playa
Ryan

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise the turn?

This guy raised the flop after you raised preflop. He obviously has something and you have nothing.

If you really need to be that aggressive, do it on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be misunderstanding you. He simply bet the flop. Do you think a fold on the flop would have been a better call on my part?

[Gally327]

I think so. Refer to my previous post.
ryan

[papawawa]

flair,
thats not really a semi-bluff as you haven't made ANY sort of hand at all. You need at least a small made hand plus a good draw for a play to be considered a semibluff. (ie- you hold A6 diamonds, and the flop comes J 6 2 (2 of which are your suit). Now you have middle pair top kicker which, in and of itself may not be enough to win the pot, but the flush draw to the nuts warrants you "semi-bluffing" this hand. Good play on the turn, but all you're really doing is bluffing.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
flair,
thats not really a semi-bluff as you haven't made ANY sort of hand at all. You need at least a small made hand plus a good draw for a play to be considered a semibluff. (ie- you hold A6 diamonds, and the flop comes J 6 2 (2 of which are your suit). Now you have middle pair top kicker which, in and of itself may not be enough to win the pot, but the flush draw to the nuts warrants you "semi-bluffing" this hand. Good play on the turn, but all you're really doing is bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I understand now. Just made it through the semi-bluff section of holdem for advanced player and I think I am being overly aggressive and not heeding to the caveats.

That said I do not think I should have folded on the flop, becuase with the (2) overcards I think I had proper pot-odds. I don't think you could put the BB on anything other than top pair or a flush draw. At the time I called on the flop the pot was giving me 7.5:1, and even if the Ac comes up, I would then have a good flush draw.

So that considered my call on the flop was at least proper. Or am I missing something?

[Matty]

Yes, your flop call was correct.

A call on the turn would have been correct as well.

[lu_hawk]

You don't need to worry very often about making semi-bluffs at these limits. There might be some very specific times when it is +EV but when you are dealing with a table of calling stations you aren't missing out on much if you just forget the idea for now. There are alot of things to be working on that will affect your profitability to a much greater degree.

In this specific hand you can just call the turn, but the raise isn't bad because if you don't hit you can check through the river for the same price as calling the river bet. You can fold to a 3-bet or if he bets into you again on the river after you have raised.

And FWIW you don't need a made hand for it to be a semi-bluff. A draw to something that is likely to win is enough. You should be more inclined to bluff/semi-bluff as the number of players in the pot gets lower and as the size of your bet in relation to the size of the pot gets higher. In the example with the middle pair and flush draw it's not even a semi-bluff, it is a bet for value. There's a good chance you have the best hand and you have the monster draw.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
flair,
thats not really a semi-bluff as you haven't made ANY sort of hand at all. You need at least a small made hand plus a good draw for a play to be considered a semibluff. (ie- you hold A6 diamonds, and the flop comes J 6 2 (2 of which are your suit). Now you have middle pair top kicker which, in and of itself may not be enough to win the pot, but the flush draw to the nuts warrants you "semi-bluffing" this hand. Good play on the turn, but all you're really doing is bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]
How is that not a semi-bluff? You don't need to have a hand for it to be a semi-bluff; all you need is a hand where improvement to the best hand is possible; with an A, a Q, or a K, I'd be reasonably sure he has the best hand. Given the fold by the BB, I'd think this definitely qualifies as a semi-bluff.