New to 2+2 and poker in general --- Pot Committed

[M50Paul]

Is there a good defintion for what is meant by pot committed?

[SumZero]

Pot committed means that you are forced to call no matter what because the pot is so big with respect to your chips. So in a no limit tournament imagine that the blinds were 5k, 10k and you have 10,050 chips and are the big blind. If someone (or multiple people) raise, you should call no matter what[1] because you are pot committed. So the odds of you winning the pot times the pot will be much more than the 50 chips you'd have left.

1 - The exception being a tournament where many people are all in in front of you, and if some of them get knocked out you end up in the money from surviving. E.g., a tournament where the top 50 places win the same thing (say entry to a bigger tournament) and there are 51 people left and 5 people are all in in front of you and you have 27 offsuit. Here you should fold and the 50 chips will likely win you the same as 1 million chips.

[ML4L]

Hey Paul,

Pot-committed is when you have just put a terrible beat on someone after having made a terrible, loose call and, as the whole table sits and stares at you with their mouths agape, you feel that you need to say something wise to justify your horrible, horrible play...

"Uh, I was, uh, POT-COMMITTED!"

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ML4L

[ML4L]

Hey Paul,

In all seriousness, Zero's definition is pretty much right. Basically, it means that, sometime during the hand, you reach the point of no return. So, no matter what action happens after you, you are going to do whatever it takes to reach showdown at the end, even if it means risking all of your money.

Now, perhaps you can see why this is a dangerous concept, particularly for beginners. Many players pot-commit themselves when they shouldn't (i.e. their cards aren't good enough to warrant their risking what it will take to reach showdown), and players think that they are pot-committed when they aren't (i.e. the pot is too small, and thus the player is not deeply invested enough to risk a ton of money to reach showdown). So, be careful not to take the concept too far, particularly in no-limit or pot-limit, where reaching showdown can be far more expensive than in limit.

Last thought: in no-limit, one often decides whether or not to pot-commit himself when being faced with a bet that would be a big chunk or his stack (i.e. if you put in 80% of your money on the turn, the last 20% should go in if necessary to see showdown, no matter what). That's overgeneralizing a bit, but hopefully you see the point.

Hope this helps; welcome to the forum.

ML4L

[Leo Bello]

In resume try not to be pot commited. I mean, do not say you are pot commited when you are not. I see people saying it all the time at tables, and putting more money into the pot, and losing it most of the time.
Example, yesterday I went into a pot with AA, heavy betting and such. Flop came null, 286, I checked, the guy betted, I reraised him, he stopped considered and then called me. Turn one more blank card, guy checked, I fired again, he called with much thought. (probably two bad calls), river was K. The guy immediately betted all in. I have like one third of my stack left (we were about the same) after sometime I decided to fold. Most people would say I should have called cause I was pot commited, but I knew he had hit on the river. Well, he holded KK and took the hand, and I saved one third of my stack.
Two rounds later, with a hidden set, I mamaged to rebuild my stack against another loose caller. Had i been "pot commited" in the hand before I would have lost my stack and be out of the game. Normally I feel pot commited when I do think I still can win. Do not go into hands u feel commited but know u had been outdraw.

[Louie Landale]

Actually you would want to fold AA in that spot.

And I would change it to "will call" rather than "forced to call" since some folks get pot-committed even before they look at their cards.

And I would change "no matter what" to "except for unlikely disasters". I get "pot committed" when I flop 2 pair but will at rare times fold it later.

This "pot committed" stuff is actually REAL important, since you need to know when the opponent is pot committed and when he isn't: don't bluff the pot committed folks. Some tight players are "pot committed" when they check-and-call the flop; whereas other are once they raise the turn.

- Louie

[Capn486]

[ QUOTE ]
In resume try not to be pot commited. I mean, do not say you are pot commited when you are not. I see people saying it all the time at tables, and putting more money into the pot, and losing it most of the time.
Example, yesterday I went into a pot with AA, heavy betting and such. Flop came null, 286, I checked, the guy betted, I reraised him, he stopped considered and then called me. Turn one more blank card, guy checked, I fired again, he called with much thought. (probably two bad calls), river was K. The guy immediately betted all in. I have like one third of my stack left (we were about the same) after sometime I decided to fold. Most people would say I should have called cause I was pot commited, but I knew he had hit on the river. Well, he holded KK and took the hand, and I saved one third of my stack.
Two rounds later, with a hidden set, I mamaged to rebuild my stack against another loose caller. Had i been "pot commited" in the hand before I would have lost my stack and be out of the game. Normally I feel pot commited when I do think I still can win. Do not go into hands u feel commited but know u had been outdraw.

[/ QUOTE ]
Alright, now I've got a question. In this particular example, since the pot is laying you 5 to 1, you would be pot committed unless you thought there was an 83.3% chance that you were beat. Right? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

EDIT: I'm just trying to understand. I'm not commenting on how the hand was played.

[ML4L]

Hey all,

The key to pot-commitment is that it does NOT mean you call on the river if it is clear that you are beat. I mean, if your opponent shows you his cards on the river and they're better than yours, you fold. It's more of a concept to help you make decisions EARLY in the hand with non-drawing hands. If you have $600 left on the turn and are facing a $300 bet into a $300 pot, you generally do not want to call with a non-drawing hand if you plan on folding to a $300 bet on the river. If you do fold, then you made a mistake. You probably should have either folded the turn or called the river.

There are exceptions to every rule, and pot-commitment is no exception. So, that's as airtight of an example as I can give. Hope it helps.

ML4L

[M50Paul]

Thanks the discussion was very helpfull. I got it thnaks

[Capn486]

Alright, thanks.

I don't play much NL or PL. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[bernie]

haha...

This usually coincides with someone saying, "It was my blind!" After coldcalling 3.5 bets preflop in the sb with total crap.

b

[maryfield48]

[ QUOTE ]
There are exceptions to every rule, and pot-commitment is no exception.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except the rule that there are exceptions to every rule, to which there is no exception.