Folded top pair on flop [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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07-20-2004, 04:10 AM

Correct to do so? I thought the reverse implied odds in this hand were to great to continue.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (11 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (15 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB
Main Pot: 19 BB, between SB, UTG, UTG+2 and MP3.

sthief09

07-20-2004, 05:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Correct to do so? I thought the reverse implied odds in this hand were to great to continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

then why didn't you just muck preflop?

I see no reason to not 3-bet the flop, but I wouldn't have been in the hand to begin with (but I don't really know if that's right)

MarkL444

07-20-2004, 05:57 AM

i like the preflop call, would have either bet out or 3 bet the flop.

StableHand

07-20-2004, 06:02 AM

Hi.

I'm a beginner, and my reply is more an effort to test my own play than give you any advice, so take it for what it's worth.

If I check in BB on this flop, it is with the intention of raising a bet, not folding; but I'd rather lead out and 3-bet a raise. I'd be optimistic and put UTG+2 on 98, QJ, QT the others on random holdings, someone might have a 54, JT or A6. Bet the turn and consider folding to a raise, maybe QJ hit, or maybe there is a made set.

At any rate, the pot's too big for a fold on the flop.

You might want to take a look at this hand. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=843547&page=1&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#843547)

sthief09

07-20-2004, 06:07 AM

good post.

if you're going to call a hand like this in the BB, you better be damn well sure you're going to raise raise raise when you flop top pair. otherwise it's worthless.

personally I don't like the preflop call much but I've been known to be wrong before.

Avatar

07-20-2004, 02:44 PM

sthief, I checked the flop to gain information before putting anymore money into the pot. I wanted to find out where the strength was at and how much of it. If UTG bet and a few simply called, I was going to toss in a raise, but is my top pair, 2nd nut kicker, really strong enough in this instance to re-raise a raiser?

Anyways, results:

SB shows 5s 6d (two pair, sixes and fives).
UTG shows Qh Ks (one pair, queens).
UTG+2 shows Ac Qc (one pair, queens).
MP3 shows Kh Jh (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: SB wins 19 BB.

EEEK... I would have been tied for 3rd. I'm still lost with this hand. It may almost be worth a muck pre-flop in the future, to save the trouble.

I wouldn't mind hearing others thoughts on the appropriate pre-flop and flop action to take in this situation.

sthief09

07-20-2004, 02:50 PM

it's not that complicated.

if you decide to play 2 very big cards, and you hit top pair, you can't fold. if you're going to play weak-tight (suboptimally), then just don't play it at all. this is a great flop for you.

the results show a reason to muck preflop, not a reason to fold the flop.

if I had a choice between 54s or KQo preflop, I'd take 54s.

MoreWineII

07-20-2004, 03:10 PM

I'm not a big fan of KQos through a raise. It's dominated too many times by typical raising hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK, and AQ and still slightly behind lots of other raising hands like 9-9, 10-10, JJ, etc.

Although I could be wrong too. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

But in the BB, I would make that call. And once I flopped top pair, I would stick with it until the board showed such that it made this course of action impossible.