disagree w/c&b book play

to start with, i'd like to say i think the fact that the book looks just like hpfap is a joke. past that, however, i think it may better my play more than any book has simply because scenarios are thought-provoking. right or wrong, the situations and the reasoning for the recommended play really make you think, and promote more thinking at the tables. grudgingly recommended until the cover gets changed, then it's highly recommended /images/smile.gif


although lots of things "depend", i don't see any advantage to the play on the turn betting section's situation #27 (page 171):


(27) A $20/$40 game. You are in the cutoff seat with the 8c-8d. The game is shorthanded with only six players. You open with a raise. The button reraises and you are the only caller. There is $150 in the pot and two players. The flop comes: Tc-Td-6s, giving you tens over eights. You bet and the button calls. There is $190 in the pot. The turn is the 8h, giving you a full house. What do you do?


Answer: Bet. Your opponent in all likelihood either has overcards or an overpair. An overpair will occasionally raise your tunr bet, allowing you to three-bet with your full house. If your opponent has overcards, he may well decide not to bet, and just see the river for free, so checking is inferior here.


i would check the turn every single time against any player at any table. the game is short, so it's more aggressive. you look like you're making an attempt on the flop. a check here induces overcards or a smaller pair than yours to bet. jj and higher will bet. any ten will bet. the only fear you have is tt or t6 at this point. if they probably have overcards, why scare them out? even if they have an overpair, you're still a favorite. let them bet (and possibly checkraise), or let them improve.

I agree checking the turn may have some merit, but I strongly disagree you should try it regardless of your player. This tactic would be most appropriate against a strong player who might be rope-a-doping you along with an overpair where he thinks he is way ahead or way behind due to the paired board (and he's right). If he only has overcards, he may check behind the turn, but this probably earns you a call on the river (or you could even try a check raise again if an A or K hits).


As your opponent becomes less thinking and/or more aggressive (i.e. your typical mid limit player), I think you are much more likely to earn excessive action by betting the turn, as it now costs him 3 bets to find out you have a real hand, whereas he gets the same information for 2 bets if you check raise. Even if he doesn't raise, his suspicion may earn you weak calls on both the turn and river. Betting should also be best against loose passive opponents who call with a lot more hands than they will bet. Even if your opponent has overcards and you get off the check raise, this doesn't guarantee you win any more bets from him, as he may now fold. Indeed, you may even lose money if his suspicion might otherwise have induced him to call all the way down to the river with something like AQ.


On balance, I think I like C&B's advice to bet the turn for most opponents. Continuing to bet is less immediately revealing of your strength than a check raise, forcing your opponent (who presumably has a quality hand, given his preflop 3 bet) to choose between continuing to call with a weak hand or opening the door to a reraise if he feels strong enough to test your strength with a raise. But you should probably throw in the occassional check raise as well, just to keep him guessing.

I like betting here. A lot of opponents will check behind you thinking they are either a little a head or way behind.


In the book the typical players are a little on the passive side, so I think a bet is more correct against passive opponents.

I agree. If you check-raise the turn, it just looks way too suspicious, and he may not even come for the river. If he does have a 10, he will only call the check-raise and call the river, thinking(correctly) that you filled up. By betting, he will usually raise the turn, which allows you to gain an extra bet on the turn by 3-betting. Hell, he may even think you are on a steal and raise, which also gains you an extra bet as opposed to check raising. Most players won't bet 2 overcards in this spot.


DN

Honold,


Why do you wish to give your opponent a free card to draw out on you? With an overpair you immediately lose if he improves, with a ten and an overcard he hits you lose, with a pair of nines he hits you lose. No overpair knowing you called his raise pre-flop will bet here unless he has aces. Your check/raise will probably cause him to fold so you win one bet only. If you check and he misses then you bet on river and he misses you get no action at all.


Seems to me the way to maximize your profit is to bet on the turn.


Jimbo