30-60 JTs hand

i have JTs utg and i limp. mp raises, button (a loose pretty bad player) calls, sb calls, i call.


the flop is: Jh6h3c. i bet, mp folds, button raises, sb folds. i 3 bet, button calls.


the turn is 8h. i check and call the button's bet.


the river is 4d. i check and call the button's bet.


comments?

Mike, just me I guess, but here I think I like to retake control of the betting. I don't like a check call stratagy here. I think I would lead into him on the turn, or check raise the turn. If he raises, or 3 bets my CR then I have to figure to be beat and can lay down here. But I feel playing passivly in this situation gives me less chance to win, as you don't put any pressure on him to lay down his bad jack (if that is indeed what he has) or make him think real hard before chasing down that sloppy 2nd pair on the river. My gut tells me you called him down and your J-10 was good.

I wouldn't limp with JTs UTG, lest I find myself in this situation. Even loose, bad players get hands and now you're in a predicament where you check-called the turn and the river. Unless he's a really bad player, hard to imagine a hand you could beat (but I guess you did win the hand, hence the post).

I realize you describe the button as a loose player but is there a hand you can put him on that you beat? I guess J9 works. When the turn comes with the flush card I think you have to let it go.


Claude

i think what happened is my check on the turn set up the play of the rest of the hand. i either had to fold the hand right there on the turn or check/call him on both streets (unless a 4th heart came on the river in which case i either bet and fold to a raise or check/fold).


ive been trying to think of times when it might be right to just check-call and possibly let a player with position trap himself. ive had this done to me many times and im looking to learn to do it (in moderation! -- it's usually weak tight players that are best at this).


however, whoever said a checkraise is best here is probably right. it's an easy fold if it's 3 bets back to me and i might get lesser hands to fold on the turn or the river, and i charge a big heart the most.


what happened was the guy had Ah6x fro a pair of 6s and a heart flush that almost got there. so my hand was good when i called him down on the river. i came very close to laying down on the turn so i took some time there and that certainly is what made him bet the river.

You were beating yourself up for calling with your overpair KK (in the above hand) when the flush card came on the river. Yet, you seem satisfied with your play here when you called twice with just top pair/soft kicker after the flush card came. This seem to be contradictory


How do you justify calling down in this situation? Even if he just has a Jack, you're usually going to be outkicked since he called two cold pre-flop (yeah, I know he's loose).

in the kk hand i was certain that the lady had a flush. it was only because of the chance she held KJ or J9 that i called her down. in retrospect even that was a mistake. my read on her from previous hands i had played against her was that she is a non-tricky bad loose player playing 30-60 because she and her hubby are rich. this read told me that she wouldnt even bluff on the end with something like KJ or J9, she would just check behind. and she wouldnt check the turn with AQ or other naked queens just to be tricky, save bets, etc. she wouldnt have played that that fast and the only logical hand for her to have on the end was a flush.


with the JT im still pretty uncertain as to how much i like my play. i really didnt know much about my opponent except that he is quite loose and my default for 20-40 and up so far is that calling down with top pair is generally a good idea unless the board is super scary. this is because even generally bad players have learned to survive by making occasionaly turn raises with promising draws. ive been having some success in these scenarios when im against an unknown, but am looking to revise it accordingly.


this is a tangent but i find the most helpful answers on here are of the "if..then" sort. ya know what i mean?


(again apologies as im drunk at a party...)

I would have folded--gotta be hearts. Not much to

beat. If someone plays second pair like that, can I sit down in the game with him?

Dammit mike -


when drunk at a party, you should NOT be on this forum.