High Limit Players

[Mucking Idiot]

Tip the freakin dealers you cheap %$##.....geez...u take down a 3000 dollar pot and you are too cheap to throw a buck(or, god forbid, even 2), to the dealer(who might be trying to support 4 kids)...sure...you are trying to make a living, but so are they.
you dont have to make them rich, but dont just screw them. if you dont tip, make no doubt about it, you are the lower form of life.
i live in vegas, used to deal b4 i turned pro. ive talked to alot of dealers and i know..the high limit players are cheap(thats different that tight). there is NO NEED TO EXTEND A TIGHT GAME BEYOND YOUR BETS, so dont try that excuse. they do not care about people.
this does not apply to all high limit players, but most of them. YOU ARE HATED, AND FOR GOOD REASON!!!!

[Speed Racer]

The rule that governs tipping is:

It's the player's money so it is the player's choice to tip or not tip, how much, and in what circumstances.

Playing cards at a casino or winning a pot imposes no obligation on the player. It is his choice.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

You may be right about tipping being the player's choice.

But non-tippers are still cheap @#$%@##$ bastards who need to pull the corncob out of their ass.

al

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I tip by default. It comes from my years in the restaurant business. However, it does seem that the entire casino experience is set up to present the customer with the maximum number of tipping opportunities.

I have begun to watch how dealers approach tipping. I've begun to notice that many don't say "thank you" when they get a tip. I don't say i never tip those dealers, but my pot-size threshhold for a tip does go up a bit.

[Speed Racer]

The sad reality of casino tipping these days is that much of the money "tipped" to dealers ends up in the pockets of the floormen, chip runners, other casino employees, and even contributes to the casinos bottom line.

In L.A., dealers are required to pay into a fund each down which is distributed to the floormen.

In the high tip jobs, i.e. the high stakes Asian games, dealers must payoff shift managers to actually get the job, and then pay the floormen weekly.

The dealers also pay taxes on their "estimated" tips so some of your tip goes to the IRS.

So when you give the dealer one dollar, five dollars, or twenty dollars, the dealer to a certain extent, is just a conduit for someone else, whom the player never intended, to get some money.

I think a conservative estimate is that for each dollar a player tips a dealer, 60 cents actually makes it to the dealer. The rest gets shanghied.

Speedy

[Mucking Idiot]

Your concept of what really goes on with a poker dealers tips seem pretty far fetched. In vegas, not one thing you just said is completely accurate. It sounds to me like a rationalization, something YOU might believe if you said it to yourself enough.

Most dealers get taxed a predetermined estimate of their tips. That is taken out of their minimum wage. So they take home about 2-3 dollars per hour on their check. If you dont tip, the dealer still pays the taxes. The actual 25c that YOU give the dealer goes directly in his pocket.

Tipping the floor is more a courtesy dealers show to the floorman, though it never hurts to grease the wheels.

I don't know anything about the "high tip", asian high stakes games...never heard of them, so I guess you're right about that one.

Your "other casino employees" conspiracy theory is a joke, i'll assume. It's as good a theory as your "casinos bottom line".

Whatever you have to tell yourself, that's ok. But "go sell crazy someplace else"...we're all stocked up here.

[Sponger15SB]

hey muck - blow me.

deal the cards and shut up, thats all i want the dealers to do, why should i tip them, especially when you know there are fuckwad dealers like you.

[Speed Racer]

I play 99% of my poker in L.A. so what happens in L.V. is mostly a mystery to me.

Dealers in L.A. have tax deducted from their checks based on their hourly wage plus "estimated" tips just like waiters at restaurants.

Dealers in L.A. are also required to contribute a fixed amount for each down they deal to a "tip pool" which is distrubuted to the floormen, chip runners, and, in some cases, other casino employees.

How much they must contribute and who gets what depends on the casino.

There is even a sign on the doors of the Commerce Casino stating the fact that dealer tips are not wholly retained by dealers but instead are used to compensate "other casino employees."

The truth, of course, is that by siphoning dealer tips, the dealers can save on the pay of other casino employees and improve their bottom line.

[Mucking Idiot]

SEE!!!...SEEEEEE!!!!
It's people like this guy who doesnt tip.
Thanks for helping me prove my point sponge.
Like I said...LOWER FORMS OF LIFE /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[tylerdurden]

So let's assume dealers do only get 60% of the tips (and I know this isn't the case everywhere). Does that mean you shouldn't tip at all? That seems to be what you're implying - that because someone other than the dealer will (unfairly) get some of your tip, you should just hang on to the money.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey MI,

Let my preface by saying that, in general, I am a very generous tipper, whether it be for a meal, to the guy who washes my car, or to the guys who deliver my furniture. However, tipping is completely the customer's perogative. If he/she doesn't think that the service was good enough to merit a tip, then they shouldn't tip. I'm also a firm believer that tips should never be solicited. As a rule, I tip $1 for every pot I win where I earn money postflop, but if the dealer is bad or I have an issue with them (related to their job performance, not personally), I will not tip them.

GoT

[Speed Racer]

I believe in the power of the educated consumer.

If you are a regular in nice restaurant and are always served by the same person who provides excellent service, I would prefer to know if the waiter had to give 60% of her tips to the busboys, chefs, etc. and pay another 25% of her tips to the IRS.

Personally, it would affect how much I tip, but like I said earlier in this thread, tipping, when and how much, is strictly a personal decision.

Whatever you choose to do is your business--sort of like which color you choose when you buy a car--there is no right answer.

Speedy

[tylerdurden]

I usually ask dealers if they have to pool tips or whatever, but it doesn't affect my tipping. I'm not going to tip more just because a dealer has to pool or cut someone in on it.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Your concept of what really goes on with a poker dealers tips seem pretty far fetched. In vegas, not one thing you just said is completely accurate. It sounds to me like a rationalization, something YOU might believe if you said it to yourself enough.

Tipping the floor is more a courtesy dealers show to the floorman, though it never hurts to grease the wheels.

Whatever you have to tell yourself, that's ok. But "go sell crazy someplace else"...we're all stocked up here.

[/ QUOTE ]
He may not be as off base as we would like to think. When my Mom dealt at Palace Station she was forced to tip the floorman and cashier. I don't know if that has changed or not, this was in '96.

I know that Sahara dealers were forced to pay to deal, as well, in the past.

Down at the Riveside, 90 miles south of Vegas, dealers have to pay the poker room manager $5.00 when they clock in, whether they deal a hand or not. Then they are forced to pay the floorman $1.50 per hour for every hour they are dealing, again, regardless of whether they ever deal a hand. They have to pay the cashier $2.50 per shift. When they take a break, if they want to smoke they have to sit at a slot machine and it is mandatory to tip the cocktail waitress and play the slots. They make sure to keep more dealers in their room even when games are slow, so that sometimes a dealer will only deal one down, then sit around for hours. They are still forced to pay the hourly rate. If games get shorthanded, they will not break them, dealers are forced to play, with their own money, and do not get any rake reduction.

If a whale is flown in by private plane or helicopter, dealers are forced to tip the helicopter/plane pilot, the limo driver, and the girl who dispatches.

When a huge BBJ was hit a few months ago, a drunk tourist tipped the dealer over 5k. The poker room manager demanded that the dealer hand over the tip. Once the dust was settled, he was given $700 out of the 5k, the poker room manager kept the rest.

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Whatever you choose to do is your business--sort of like which color you choose when you buy a car--there is no right answer.


[/ QUOTE ]


damn, i put down black.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
SEE!!!...SEEEEEE!!!!
It's people like this guy who doesnt tip.
Thanks for helping me prove my point sponge.
Like I said...LOWER FORMS OF LIFE /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

give me a [censored] break you kook, look at yourself you greedy son of a bitch, you really think you deserve tips with the incredibly crappy attitude you have?? i play low limits in B&amp;M, just eeking out a profit it hard enough but now i gotta tip the stupid ass greedy annoying dealers like you as well? NO! there are only like 4 dealers that i tip in my whole casino because they are incredible dealers and are very fun and nice, you know you should get FIRED when you solicit yourself for tips, some dealer a few weeks ago was complaining about the speed of our game and how we don't tip, WHILE he was dealing to us, HOW PATHETIC and GREEDY. this guy will never ever ever ever get a tip from me ever again (if i win the BBJ, i'll give money to another dealer, haha!) and i almost pulled the floorman aside because when any worker (dealers, waitresses, valets, etc) complains it makes the customers (believe it or not poker players are customers) incredibly uncomfortable.

if the dealers are unhappy with the ammount of tips they recieve from the players they should either try harder or quit. period. don't start ranting on some message board like the players owe you for doing your job.

[Mucking Idiot]

I pretty sure your information is outdated..I know for a fact that sahara dealers are not forced to pay a floorman anything, but i have never talked to anyone at palace station or riverside. I also know this is not CURRENTLY the case at, the horseshoe, orleans, mirage, bellagio, circus circus...really, a FORCED tip to the floor is not mandatory at any vegas casino, as far as i know. It is merely a suggested practice. A dealer might feel it is forced because the dealer doesn't want to STIFF the floorman(bad things MIGHT happen if you stiff your boss).

Given how desperate casinos are for poker dealers nowadays...i doubt these things that you say happen at riverside still happen today . It just would not fly.

As far as whale being flown in......well, my original, and really only, point is about POKER dealers and how cheap the higher limit players are. I can only assume when you say whales you are talking aboult blackjack players tipping out $5000 dollars left and right.

Again my original point is about high limit poker players and how incredibly cheap they are.

EVERY dealer i talked to at the WSOP said they DREADED dealing in the high stakes room. They said the tourneys paid good and the low limit players tip OK(after all, they know what its like to work for a living). They said for the most part the higher limit players treated people like crap AND THEN STIFFED THEM.

As for bad beat jackpots, I think that dealer got robbed out of his/her tip. Literally robbed.

When i was a dealer. I often thought about what i would do if i dealt the bad beat to a table full of stiffs. Here's what i came up with: if it looked like a bad beat was coming, i would forget to burn a card..if it was a jackpot, i would drop the deck and scramble the cards. I would do anything to prevent that jackpot from being paid, at the inevitable expense of my job. I would not, however, do this if 1 person at the table was tipping me at least fairly.

[Ed Miller]

When i was a dealer. I often thought about what i would do if i dealt the bad beat to a table full of stiffs. Here's what i came up with: if it looked like a bad beat was coming, i would forget to burn a card..if it was a jackpot, i would drop the deck and scramble the cards. I would do anything to prevent that jackpot from being paid, at the inevitable expense of my job. I would not, however, do this if 1 person at the table was tipping me at least fairly.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671723650/qid=1090305860/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-4244822-7383954?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
I pretty sure your information is outdated..I know for a fact that sahara dealers are not forced to pay a floorman anything, but i have never talked to anyone at palace station or riverside.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is why I said "in the past" about Sahara, and '96 about Palace Station.

[ QUOTE ]
Given how desperate casinos are for poker dealers nowadays...i doubt these things that you say happen at riverside still happen today . It just would not fly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, you're right, in a way. The poker room manager just INCREASED the fee that the dealers have to pay in March. Five dealers walked out on him the very first shift.

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671723650/qid=1090305860/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-4244822-7383954?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846

[/ QUOTE ]


i was thinking

www.youreafuckingcrazynutcase.com (http://www.youreafuckingcrazynutcase.com)

would be a better link, but thats cool also

[Mucking Idiot]

SEEE!!!!
SSEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[djack]

If you've been a pro long, you should know how difficult it can be at times.

A buck a pot for a pro turns alot money. You win 10k pots in a year, and that's 10k in tips.

Dealers know what they are getting into when they take a job as a dealer. Bad tippers are part of the deal. They made their bed, they can lie in it.

[djack]

I should probably note that I tip a buck per pot.

But then, I play online more than live. And tipping is a big reason I prefer online and don't play much live.

[Brian]

I love Mr. Pink.

EDDIE
All right. Everybody cough up some green for the little lady.

Come on. Throw in a buck.

MR. PINK
Uh-uh. I don't tip.

EDDIE
You don't tip?

MR. PINK
No - I don't believe in it.

EDDIE
You don't believe in tipping?

MR. BLUE
You know what these chicks make? They make [censored].

MR. PINK
Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.


(Mr. Blonde laughs.)
EDDIE
I don't even know a [censored] Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?

MR. PINK
I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I mean I'll tip if somebody really deserves a tip, if they really put forth the effort, I'll give 'em something extra, but I mean this tipping automatically is for the birds.


(Eddie laughs.)
I mean as far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.

MR. BLUE
Hey, this girl was nice.

MR. PINK
She was OK - but she wasn't anything special.

MR. BLUE
What's special, take you in the back and suck your dick?


(They laugh.)
EDDIE
I'd go over 12% for that.

MR. PINK
Hey Look, I ordered coffee, right? Now we've been here a long fuckin time, and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times

MR. BLONDE
Six times? Well, you know, what if she's too [censored] busy?

MR. PINK
Words "too [censored] busy" shouldn't be in a waitress' vocabulary.

EDDIE
Excuse me, Mr. Pink - the last [censored] thing you need's another cup of coffee.

MR. PINK
Jesus Christ - I mean these ladies aren't starving to death. They make minimum wage. You know, I used to work minimum wage. And when I did, I wasn't lucky enough to have a job society deemed tip-worthy.

MR. BLUE
You don't care they're counting on your tips to live?


(Mr. Pink rubs two of his fingers together.)
MR. PINK
You know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.

MR. WHITE
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their ass. This is a hard job.

MR. PINK
So's working at McDonald's, but you don't feel the need to tip them, do you? Why not? They're servin ya food. But no, society says don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here. That's bullshit.

MR. WHITE
Waitressing is the number one occupation for female noncollege graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips.

MR. PINK
(pauses) [censored] all that.


(They all laugh.)
MR. BROWN
Jesus Christ!

MR. PINK
Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's [censored] up. That ain't my fault. It would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're giving me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin' surprise.

MR. ORANGE
Hey - he's convinced me. Give me my dollar back.


-Brian

[djack]

[ QUOTE ]

The dealers also pay taxes on their "estimated" tips so some of your tip goes to the IRS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a good reason not to tip.

[Mucking Idiot]

if you win 10,000 $3,000 pots in a year, as per my original post, you can afford to tip generously, even though that is not expected. But you can certainly afford to contribute to the service given.

Waiters also know that stiffs are out there and i guess you think they should eat #%^$ and die in their bed also.

I personally play on the internet to avoid casino expenses such as tipping the waitress and dealer. My slim bankroll feels the squeeze of tips as much or more than yours, but if cannot afford to tip a waiter, i cannot afford to eat out. If i cannot afford to tip the waitress, i can bring a bottle of water or thermos with me. If i cannot afford to tip the dealer, i'm better off playing online or even finding a new line of work.

I still hold my original point that if you dont tip you are a lower form of life. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mucking Idiot]

I hope mr pink eats alot of snotty spitballs.

[djack]

I'm normally a regular buck a pot tipper.

But you're such a jerk that on my next b&amp;m trip, I may not tip at all.

[TomCollins]

So how much should these high limit players tip? You sound like an expert on the topic.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
So how much should these high limit players tip? You sound like an expert on the topic.

[/ QUOTE ]

as a follow up to this,

1)why do you think poker dealers deserve tips?

2)do dealers who are exceptionally bad or rude still deserve tips

[lowroller]

I'll add that until I started keeping detailed records of my B&amp;M play, I used to be a generous tipper. Once I started looking back at my stats...man, oh, man does it add up!!

Does anyone else keep track of how much they tip out a session? If you don't, I think you would be surprised.

Now my policy is if I'm winning I tip normally, if I'm behind I sit on my hands (with a tip reserved for a decent sized pot or hellacious suck-out).

[djack]

[ QUOTE ]
Now my policy is if I'm winning I tip normally, if I'm behind I sit on my hands (with a tip reserved for a decent sized pot or hellacious suck-out).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really think that's fair to the dealers. I think it's a much better policy to tip if they're dealing well, and not tip if they're poor dealers.

As for my previous post in the thread, I was joking. I'll continue to tip the same.

[lowroller]

I agree very strongly with KSOM, but I take it a step further. Dealers that don't have the decency to at least say "Thank you" don't get [censored] from me.

[PokerPaul]

muck, your attitude stinks...
indeed tips are something that should be given as an extra for good service, but in north america specifically, it has become an assumed standard, regardless of what kind of service is being provided.

In Europe, tipping is not as widespread as here, in fact in most restaurants etc. in germany, more people do not tip at all, and that is socially accepted.

Here there is an honus on customer to tip service type employees. Generally, i find this to be a good thing, because it promotes people to provide better service to earn those tips (ex. customer service in Europe generally is worse compared to here).

however, that doesnt mean that i have to tip everyone just because they expect me too, without them providing good service.

Its still up to you to do a good job to earn those tips, its not someting you can pressure or guilt customers into.

I know there are some cheap customers whos should probably tip more, just like there are some bad dealers, who should not be getting the tips they do....

[jar]

I used to tip the usual buck a pot for any decent sized pot, which is a lot at $2/4. Now that I know that Foxwoods dealers pool their tips, I'm inclined to tip much less. If the dealers kept their own tips, I'd tip generously to the ones that actually get a decent number of hands out, and speak decent English. If asked why I don't tip much, I'll tell them its because of pooled tips. If enough players do this, maybe the dealers will realize that non-pooled tips give them more money, and start complaining to management.

[lowroller]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now my policy is if I'm winning I tip normally, if I'm behind I sit on my hands (with a tip reserved for a decent sized pot or hellacious suck-out).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't really think that's fair to the dealers. I think it's a much better policy to tip if they're dealing well, and not tip if they're poor dealers.

Loz,

I think my system is very fair. I am sorry, but if I am stuck, I can't afford to dig myself in deeper by subsidizing the dealer. I know quite a few dealers, and none has ever had a problem with it when I asked them about it.

Do I ask the dealer to reach in the tray and toss me a couple of chips when he/she "puts a bad beat on me at the river?!" Hell no. Therefore, why should I reach into my stack, if I'm behind?!

That said, I can honestly say I am the ONLY person I have ever know to tip the dealer solely for "doing their job correctly". By that I mean:

1. Keeping control of the game/action when there is an abundance of "know it alls" trying to run the game

2. Speeding up the game whenever possible. Alot of times this involves calling out the cards/suits to the old timers who can't see very well (even if they are in seat 5).

3. EXPLAINING the procedure of the game and HELPING out obvious new players (instead of getting upset with them and acting like they are idiots for not knowing what to do).

Just before they get pushed I throw a couple of chips their way and tell them "Thanks for running the game well and doing a good job". The looks on their faces is worth it.

[tree_stump]

I'm the same way. Most of the dealers at Foxwoods are *very* bad, and tipping the good ones just means that I'm tipping the bad ones. So... I'll tip anywhere from $1 - $10 directly to the good dealer when they leave the table - of course, this amount depends on how well I did over that 20 minute period, and whether or not I'm stuck.

That way the good dealers at least recognize that the players care, and, well... f*ck the bad dealers - improve or get the hell out. (And by the way, good/bad beats don't factor in - if a dealer does their job correctly and the table sees upwards of 30 hands during that 20 minutes, they're a good dealer)

[jar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll tip anywhere from $1 - $10 directly to the good dealer when they leave the table

[/ QUOTE ]
Does the dealer get to keep this? I'd assume it has to go into the toke box with the rest, but at least it makes a point to the good dealer.

[tree_stump]

It goes into the toke box, but at least the dealer that gets it can appreciate it... I've also found that if the cards are hot, I end up tipping less this way (that's not necessarily good, but I hate tipping all night just to run into a cold streak and end up the night stuck the $40 I tipped out).