Betting Patterns???

[Timmy Twist]

My apologies if this doesn't belong in this part of the forum but here goes...

I've been playing seriously for about two years now. I think I've really got the mathematics of the game down. But that seems to be just enough to break even as everyone is going to get the cards eventually.

I've read a few things on this forum about tells and betting patterns. Some feel that betting patterns are a better way to read people than tells. I've read Caro's book on tells and watched the video he has out. I'm starting to spot a few in the guys that I play with on a regular basis.

I'm really stumped on the betting patterns thing though. I don't know where to begin. I was wondering if anyone could give me a few examples of betting patterns that they've spotted to get me started. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx!

[SumZero]

The most obvious one on low buyin NL SNG is the limp-reraise. If someone limps, and you bet the pot, and then the limper goes all-in or even just min-reraises you (all preflop) the odds are very good that they have a monster. And by monster I mean >50% that it is AA (at least when the table is full).

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Examples of betting patterns:

1) Player X raises preflop, bets out on the ragedy flop, checks the turn when a blank falls = unimproved AK. Player Y in the same scenario check-raises the flop and bets out on the turn - he shows an unimproved AK at showdown. Two player, same scenario, 2 different betting patterns. At low limits, you'll rarely see a player play AK both ways.

2) Average player in EP limps and check-calls the flop and turn, but bets out when a flush card hits on the river. Unless you've seen this to be a bluff from this player, you can almost always lay down TP/TK here

3) does he call the flop and raise the turn? Standard way a LL player plays a big hand like a flopped set. Do you ever see an indication that a given player plays a flopped set differently.

In other words, physical tells can add a little earn to your game, more when you play against the same group regularly. In a casino setting, you're better off profiling your opponents by how they approach betting different categories of hands.

One note: Caro wrote his book when most poker was closed-hands, no common cards games like High draw and lowball draw, when that was all that was legal in CA. In exposed cards games, there are many more ways to profile your opponents that just physical tells.

[Timmy Twist]

Thanks for the responses guys. I guess I'm gullty of a few of these myself. I play my AK like that a lot. Usually back off if someone calls me on the flop. I'll keep my eyes open. I'll also try and mix up my play A LOT more. Thanks for the responses!

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm gullty of a few of these myself. I play my AK like that a lot. Usually back off if someone calls me on the flop. I'll keep my eyes open. I'll also try and mix up my play A LOT more.

[/ QUOTE ]
All players have betting patterns. That's just a fancy name for individual players play specific situations in particular ways. Studying betting patterns just means learning how your opponents play.

With regard to your own play:

1. Obviously you don't want to make the same wrong play over-and-over. Your betting patterns should be good plays.

2. It pays to know all of the good ways to play a situation, not just one. This allows you to vary your play without making mistakes.

3. Every hand is a little different. Pay close attention to the details and your play will naturally vary. I don't make a conscious effort to vary my play of AK overcards. It just happens because I take so many factors into consideration when playing them: position, number of opponents, board coordination, backdoor draws, type of opponent, my current image, etc.

4. Away from the table I frequently think about the different types of hands I might have for a situation and how I play them. I want my overall style to be harmonious so that it is not obvious what a particular action means. For example, when I flop something interesting I usually bet it: top pair, good draw, two pair, set, made hand, steal hand, whatever. I know that people have to give me action on my good hands or let me steal their lunch. Their choice.

[DJGroove]

I'll also try and mix up my play A LOT more.

I just wanted to make a comment about this line. Depending on what limits you are playing and whether you are playing online or live, this might not be a good thing.

Mixing up your play at a high-turnover, low-skill table (low/micro limit online for example) will serve no real purpose, except to confuse yourself. Your opponents will not be able to read you easily, especially online, and will continue calling whether or not you c/r the flop with a AK.

If you are playing in a tough game with regulars, having a few tricks up your sleeve will help yourself from becoming predictable. But then you should be asking yourself, "why am I in this game?" /images/graemlins/smile.gif .

This wasn't meant to be a flame post by any means, that line just caught my attention. Good luck at the tables!

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing seriously for about two years now. I think I've really got the mathematics of the game down. But that seems to be just enough to break even as everyone is going to get the cards eventually.


[/ QUOTE ]

Either you are playing very tough games, or you don't know the math as well as you think.

You can beat most low limit and small stakes games without knowing much about betting patterns or tells. They help you save bets, but you should be +EV without them.

NT

[LetsRock]

What Kurn said is a good example of betting patterns, but I'd like to add the implied "checking patterns". Checks can be used from a weak tight player much the way an aggresive player uses raises.

Does he like to check/raise a lot? This is the way a weak tight player will try to extract the max from his good cards, since he usually doesn't get a lot of action on his bets. Plan to get out if a weak/tight player check raises you.

Or does he usually check/call, or check/fold? This is the sign of a calling station who can usually be punished severely. Don't fear checks from these people - fear their bets. There's a pretty good chance that a calling station has pretty good cards if he's betting.

[Dan Mezick]

You can break down the betting patterns into the 4 basic patterns: {loose | tight) (aggressive | passive).

If you are not familiar with these, the Psychology of Poker by Dr. Al does a fine job of describing them.

[ChessMan]

At low limit tables, knowing the math should be profitable. I'm new, am good at math and bet accordingly and my ROI is 39%.

I haven't learned to bluff yet, but I bet on draws. So for example I'll bet on the flop with the nut-flush draw, or nut straight where your odds are about 33% of hitting by the river. Sometimes everyone folds, sometimes you get some callers. The point is you can bet properly with odds in your favour even if you don't have a made hand. Plus, you can fold if you get a big reraise and the implied odds are not there anymore. This helps encourage action on your made hands or when you do have the implied odds! The math on its own is still very powerful at the smaller tables. (I play $2 sit and goes)

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm new, am good at math and bet accordingly and my ROI is 39%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't learned to bluff yet, but I bet on draws. So for example I'll bet on the flop with the nut-flush draw, or nut straight where your odds are about 33% of hitting by the river. Sometimes everyone folds, sometimes you get some callers. The point is you can bet properly with odds in your favour even if you don't have a made hand. Plus, you can fold if you get a big reraise and the implied odds are not there anymore. This helps encourage action on your made hands or when you do have the implied odds! The math on its own is still very powerful at the smaller tables. (I play $2 sit and goes)

[/ QUOTE ]

"It depends."