KK in the CO, facing an UTG raise and cold callers

[Pil Sung Do]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (15 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (13.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 16.50 BB, between UTG, MP1 and Hero.</font>

[SpaceAce]

I cap the flop. I feel an overwhelming urge to bet the turn when everyone checks to me but maybe I am just being silly.

SpaceAce

[Pil Sung Do]

I feel an overwhelming urge to bet the turn when everyone checks to me but maybe I am just being silly.

My first thought was to bet the turn, but it just seemed way too odd for him to C/r the flop, and shut down when a scare card hit the board.

[tolbiny]

i bet here 95% of the time- maybe more. Utg could be playing a flush draw badly, or perhaps a reallypoor player with Q4s just got counterfitted, or a lone queen now afraid of the T.
I bet, and i might fold to a raise, and i might not.

[Pil Sung Do]

Utg could be playing a flush draw badly, or perhaps a reallypoor player with Q4s just got counterfitted, or a lone queen now afraid of the T.

I am not going to consider an unknown player (even at party) raising UTG w/Q4s, C/r'ing the flop and then shutting down on the turn.

Sure, it's possible that someone could play like that (and I have played with a few), but until I get proof, I'm not going to assume everyone plays horribly.

The main question here, IMO, is do I want to see a showdown?

And if so, am I ahead often enough to make a bet profitable?

[tolbiny]

"The main question here, IMO, is do I want to see a showdown?"

I think in this hand you are seeing the showdown unless a flush card hits and it is two bets to you on the river.

"I am not going to consider an unknown player (even at party) raising UTG w/Q4s, C/r'ing the flop and then shutting down on the turn."

ok, so Q4s isnt likely, but isnt a hand like KQ, or AQ or a flush draw pretty likely? yeah, sometimes he will have QQ or AA, but AA shouldn't risk getting it checked through here with a likely flush draw out there. I still bet, if you are way behind i think he lets you know immediately with a raise.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
n question here, IMO, is do I want to see a showdown?

And if so, am I ahead often enough to make a bet profitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you definitely want to see a showdown. If, for whatever reason, I checked it through on the turn and was checked to again on the river, I would bet almost 100% of the time. It's hard to give a top-down answer because I would have capped the flop and that could have caused the rest of the hand to play out very differently.

SpaceAce

[Barry]

Yeah, I think that I would cap the flop. Having only called, I would bet the turn, once it's checked to me. You're still ahead of his likely AQ.

If you don't feel so good about your hand on the river, you could consider checking it though, but if you only get called on the turn, I think that you have a good value bet.

[Pil Sung Do]

If, for whatever reason, I checked it through on the turn and was checked to again on the river, I would bet almost 100% of the time.

I agree here.

[MoreWineII]

I think would bet that turn 100% of the time. Wouldn't it be appropriate here to try to make any flush/straight draws pay to hit? And chances are good that you still have the best hand.

If he raised, then I would have a tough decision to make. Would he really go that far with AQ?

[Noodles]

I would probably cap the flop then bet the turn,UTG played it weird though,I wonder was he trying a CR on the turn.
It wouldnt be a bad play against good players as no-one would suspect a flop check-raiser to try a cr on the turn again!

[TripleH68]

At first I put MP1 on a flush draw, especially cold calling a reraise on the flop and checking the turn. So what's he doing calling on the river? AQ in fear of a T.

UTG making a straight seems unlikely. Raising KJ preflop?

I agree on capping the flop and/or betting the turn...

[MoreWineII]

Upon further review, I think UTG caps it preflop with QQ or AA and I don't think he would raise UTG with Q-10 or any x-10 for that matter (except 10-10 of course).

So I don't fear those hands too much. I don't want to give off a free card on this draw-heavy board. I confidently cap that flop and bet the turn if checked to me. If it's bet in front of me on the turn, I think I just call.

And then I cross my fingers for a K on the river to remove all (most?) of the doubt. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Pil Sung Do]

PP didn't send my hand history request so I can't remember what MP1 had.

UTG had the hand no one seemed to consider. TT.

His turn check now makes more sense in that he is not afraid of giving a free card and can hope that someone hits a big hand on the river.

I know I have a reputation for being weak/tight, but major red flags went up for me when he c/r the flop and then did not lead on the turn.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
P
UTG had the hand no one seemed to consider. TT.

His turn check now makes more sense in that he is not afraid of giving a free card and can hope that someone hits a big hand on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

From his perspective I think he played the turn horribly wrong. Sure a free card doesn't hurt you at all here, but I don't want to give a free card because I have 3 people interested enough in thier hand to make bets raises and cold calls on the flop, they damn sure most likely are calling my turn bet to see the river. Add in that the ten is a scare to everyone and its likely to get checked through. If I get lucky they make their big hand and I collect even more bets on the river, but I think he cost himself lots of money on this turn.

anyway, as for your hand, I think I cap the flop. I don't fear QT from him with his PF raise and its much more likely he has KQ or AQ than it is QQ or TT, tho his CR 3 bet does scare me

When the turn gets checked to me I bet. I think it looks more like UTG is scared of someone holding a T and his AQ is behind than it does him holding a monster. and you definately dont want to give a free card to a flush draw or someone holding an ace.