Play-along with AKo. Fun for the whole family [Archive]

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SomethingClever

07-17-2004, 12:26 PM

Reads: MP2 just limped with some crap. We think he's loose.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero ????,

cold_cash

07-17-2004, 12:32 PM

Raises.

tech

07-17-2004, 12:33 PM

3-bets.

Brain

07-17-2004, 12:33 PM

3-bet

Entity

07-17-2004, 12:35 PM

3-bets.

SomethingClever

07-17-2004, 12:37 PM

Okay, easy so far. Next move.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero ??????,

tech

07-17-2004, 12:46 PM

I raise.

Brain

07-17-2004, 12:52 PM

raise

SomethingClever

07-17-2004, 01:01 PM

Raised. And then?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero ?????

B Dids

07-17-2004, 01:01 PM

Since my timing sucks- raise both the flop and the turn.

tech

07-17-2004, 01:11 PM

Check.

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:13 PM

I check and here's what I'm thinking. If there's no 5 or 8 out or other higher PP out, then I have the best hand right now, but I don't want check-raised by MP2 here if he does. He's not folding his flush draw to my bet here either.

btspider

07-17-2004, 01:13 PM

Bet the turn and then click on fold to any bet and hope you win.

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:17 PM

Why? Couldn't your bet be better used calling the river and seeing a showdown (if you can get it for one bet)? I think this would be preferable so you can try to solidify your read on MP2.

SomethingClever

07-17-2004, 01:20 PM

So, we've got two checks and two bets. As it turned out, I checked and took the free card.

At this point, I figured MP2 for a pocket pair. My thinking was that most loose players don't know how to play hands like AK, AQ and AJ, and will often limp preflop and not semi-bluff. So what else could he have raised preflop with? A pair. Next action:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (9.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero ????

btspider

07-17-2004, 01:23 PM

My thinking: Hero has shown strength, I want another Ace or weak-tight PP to fold so I don't split/lose. If someone raises, then hitting an A or K likely won't help (would a PP check-raise you?), so I think a free card helps your opponents more than you. So invest your last BB on the turn rather than calling on the river.

tech

07-17-2004, 01:32 PM

If you are good here, you are chopping at least two ways and perhaps three. So you have to be good at least 1 in 5 times, possibly more, and I think that is highly unlikely.

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:35 PM

Call the river and hope he has no pair. I'd like to raise the river to make UTG call 2 cold and increase the size when you split, but I think that would still be -EV in the long run.

btspider

07-17-2004, 01:36 PM

Wow, that's a terrible river card and action. You are hoping to split the pot if you call and you are not closing the action. I probably fold and vow to bet the turn next time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:37 PM

I thought about that too (betting the turn and folding to a raise), but I thought seeing MP2's cards for 1 BB would be also be useful.

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:40 PM

Good point. You're not closing the action, but UTG seems passive enough that you won't see a raise behind you. I want to fold too, but that folding for one more bet thing is getting to me. Where's that post so I can plug this pesky leak of mine? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

btspider

07-17-2004, 01:40 PM

Yeah, I don't think this is the right pot to do it. If it were heads-up perhaps, but you still have another player involved. You've seen MP limp with trash, so he may be loose and you'll see more hands of his to come. I really don't want to split with another A when I can possibly push them off on the turn. If he's loose and calls, you'll see his cards anyway.

river: If its raised behind, you have to fold. I think it will be called behind, which is pretty bad. You will only get 1/3 of the pot at best.

SomethingClever

07-17-2004, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking: Hero has shown strength, I want another Ace or weak-tight PP to fold so I don't split/lose. If someone raises, then hitting an A or K likely won't help (would a PP check-raise you?), so I think a free card helps your opponents more than you. So invest your last BB on the turn rather than calling on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your thinking here. I think this is what I do in the future. After the strength I've shown, with that double-paired board on the turn, I'm (probably) only going to be raised by someone holding the boat. Of course, a smooth call probably means a big PP. And people with weak Aces or low PPs might fold.

Anyway.... here are the sexy results of the hand.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (9.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB
Main Pot: 12.75 BB, between UTG, MP2 and Hero. > Pot won by MP2 (12.75 BB).

UTG shows 2c 2d (full house, eights full of fives).
MP2 shows Th Tc (full house, eights full of tens).
Hero shows Kc Ad (full house, eights full of fives).
Outcome: MP2 wins 12.75 BB.

In retrospect, I bet I could have gotten MP2 to fold the turn. Or rather, I should have bet.

On the river is where my thinking got fuzzy. I forgot that I had put MP2 on a PP (most likely bigger than 55), and just figured everyone's hand had been counterfeited. I should have realized that any PP above 55 is good.

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:44 PM

Sounds good to me. Hooray learning!

tech

07-17-2004, 01:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect, I bet I could have gotten MP2 to fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP2 is any kind of player, there is no way he folds the turn.

Brain

07-17-2004, 01:48 PM

That's okay, I'd have put him on a PP, but would have paid to see it anyway. *smacks myself* We can debate which of those is worse later. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

btspider

07-17-2004, 01:51 PM

I don't think you would have won this hand. Good post.

SomethingClever

07-17-2004, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect, I bet I could have gotten MP2 to fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP2 is any kind of player, there is no way he folds the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he's a very good player. Looking through the stats I have on him, he is a calling station, but the turn is the most likely time for him to fold. I now see he folds the turn 18% of the time (versus 9% on the flop and 5% on the river).

Eh, maybe you're right. He probably wouldn't have laid it down.