22 from BB - ugly turn play?

[RustyCJ]

Should I check and fold the turn?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds, SB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 15.50 BB, between Hero and MP.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (15.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows 2d 2c (full house, twos full of eights).
MP shows Ah As (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 15.50 BB. </font>

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I check and fold the turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

NO!!! You'll have the best hand here often enough, and the times you don't you have 10 outs to improve! I'll bet the turn here almost every time.

[RustyCJ]

Ok, well, I was about 90% sure he would have the flush, what else could he be in the hand for? I figured if I bet and he didn't have it, he would fold, if he raised, I could call 1 more bet for a chance to improve to the fullhouse. I just wasn't sure if my thinking was correct, betting out even though I am almost sure I will have to improve on the river.

[Guido]

No way I'm folding a set getting 6.5:1 on a board like this.

Guido

[grinin]

After the turn raise, I assume the times you do not improve you fold to a river bet?

[naphand]

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Naphand is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Naphand raises</font>, MP calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Naphand bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Naphand bets</font>, MP calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Naphand bets</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 7.75 BB, between Naphand and MP.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Naphand shows As Ac (one pair, aces).
MP shows Jc 6s (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Naphand wins 7.75 BB. </font>

AND

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Naphand is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, Button folds, Naphand completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Naphand checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Naphand calls, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Naphand checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Naphand calls, BB calls.

River: (6 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Naphand bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8 BB, between Naphand and UTG.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Naphand shows Ah 5d (flush, ace high).
UTG shows Ad Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Naphand wins 8 BB. </font>

[Guido]

I'm not too fond of your flop call in hand 2 Naphand...

Guido

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not too fond of your flop call in hand 2 Naphand...


[/ QUOTE ]

Neither was my opponent.... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

3 x A, 4 x 2 plus 1 out for the backdoor flush. I make that 8 outs, which is enough to call here I think. No reason to put UTG on an A from his PF limp.

[Guido]

I know, I know but I'm still not to fond of your call because the pot is so small. It's true that you can't put your opponent on an ace but not because he didn't raise preflop. They call with Axo all the time. He might have A3 or A4, even AJ because they don't raise that always. That's why I'm not to fond of your call. It's a small pot you have 8 outs at best... It's not terrible, just very very close and because the pot is so small I don't really like it.

Thanks,

Guido

[naphand]

Yeah, I am beginning to think that maybe I am leaking some chips by not giving enough consideration to pot size when making calls like this. If I am playing well, I think I might squeeze some value from them, but in tight games (such as typical at UB) and especially against opponents who play tight post-flop, I doubt they are profitable. Against dorks who will always call you with weak hands when you CR, or over-aggro players it might pay off. UB is the place to patch up leaks like this though, as you really do (usually) need to stay tight and focussed on your game to eke out chips from the players. Today I was not over-impressed with my game, though reviewing in PT there did not seem much wrong. I think I am getting into a few too many marginal spots, and if my reads are not spot on I bleed.

I suspect I am playing little loose, as a consequence of playing the 5-max games at Paradise and PokerRoom.