YUCK A8s

[BottlesOf]

This was clearly played incorrectly. What should I have done differently?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 12.50 BB, between SB, Hero and UTG+1.</font>

[butters]

Tough hand. I like the bet into the preflop raiser on the flop. Definitely hoping he raises and folds SB (which didn't happen).

How's UTG+1? You're behind AA, AK, AQ after the river and I doubt he bets less than an A here with two callers, so the river call's for half the pot at best. You might be able to save a bet there, if anywhere.

[JohnShaft]

My default plan (once I got raised and flopped the Ace) would probably be Check/Call, Check/Call, Bet.
When we're at the River, and the Queen hits, hmmm.
I guess I might bet and fold to a raise. Either that or check and call one.
I'm probably not that fond of betting into him on the flop, though because the SB is there I don't mind it THAT much.

[butters]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm probably not that fond of betting into him on the flop, though because the SB is there I don't mind it THAT much.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. There's zero chance of getting him to fold a better A than yours, and if he's drawing to trips, it's slim.

Him calling two cold on the flop does narrow down his hand quite a bit though.

[Saborion]

I'm with you.
We should be way ahead, or we're likely to have to improve to either 2 pair, or rely on the board to split the pot. So why not simply let him do the betting? He may bet his underpair, may he not?

[WarmonkEd]

check-raise flop?

edit: nevermind. For some stupid reason I thought SB was between you and PF raiser.

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
check-raise flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

*WHY*?

[MRBAA]

I don't limp A8 suited utg in any but the most loose passive game.I want three limpers and no raisers in there with me to pay off my flush, and give me some confidence my ace could be good if I hit it.

When raised on the flop, I'd three bet, call a four bet and fold to a turn bet unless I got another A or an 8

[Holm Fries]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't limp A8 suited utg in any but the most loose passive game.I want three limpers and no raisers in there with me to pay off my flush, and give me some confidence my ace could be good if I hit it.

When raised on the flop, I'd three bet, call a four bet and fold to a turn bet unless I got another A or an 8

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold preflop. It depends on the table, but I may check call all the way at the typical PP 3/6.

[BottlesOf]

Villain had AQ

[JohnShaft]

How do you wish you'd played it now?

I think the bet and fold to a raise would have worked against most opponents. He'll either have AQ, a rarer AK, or better here. Unless he's VERY LAGish.

I agree I don't like the Flop play then call down. I don't think it accomplishes anything other than putting an extra SB in. It does put pressure on the Small Blind, but I'm not sure it's that worth it.

[BottlesOf]

I don't know John that's why I posted it for you and others /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I wish I folded it somewhere, but if I showed some more aggression, maybe he goes to call down mode and I still lose?

I really wish I won the hand. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Mike Gallo]

What should I have done differently?

I would have check raised the turn.

Other than that I do not see anything wrong with it.

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have check raised the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh! Mike I don't like that way! And without SB in I really *hate* it. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You aren't folding a better Ace, and are costing yourself an extra BB if a bet goes in on the River (and if you don't put one in he might).
And you are letting a good player get away from an underpair pretty easy for no extra bet.
(If you check the Turn and bet the River he's going to call with the underpair almost always)

I think only the presence of the SB makes me not totally disagree with playing it this way.
But still I think he's drawing dead to slim most of the time, so him folding (which he's probably going to do) is not really going to gain you anything.
And this way you might get an extra bet out of him on the river anyway.

What do you do on the River if UTG+1 calls the Turn CR?