40-80 hand

Took my first shot at 40-80 last night. Did it because a guy at my 20-40 game that was going to it told me that the main reason they wanted to get it going was that a superfish that plays almost every hand, rarely gets out of line with his betting, AND is a very nice guy wanted to play. As a firm believer that one superfish in a game is more profitable than 4-5 mediocre players(it also helped being up a couple racks in the 20-40), I rushed over.


Hand:

I have Qc9c on the button, 7-handed. One EP limper, loose old man raises(he raises with a LOT of hands), i call(?), gambling Asian calls in SB, superfish calls in BB, EP calls.


Flop:

KcTc6d


Checked to me, I bet. BB folds, Superfish calls, EP folds, original raiser calls.


Turn: Qs

KcTc6dQs


Checked to me, I bet. Superfish folds, raiser check-raises, I call.


River: Ts

KcTc6dQsTs


Original raiser bets, I call.


Straight forward or a mistake on every street? Comments appreciated. Results to follow.

Your first big mistake was calling a raise cold with Q9s. If I saw that hand, and knew nothing more about you, I'd be thinking, "Cool, we got us *two* fish in this game."


You're toast on the river. Raiser told you (1) preflop, and (2) on the turn that your hand was no good. You violated Angelo Rule #14, which says that the second time somebody tells you your hand is no good, you believe him [1]. I can't imagine calling the river there, big pot or no.


Regards, Lee


[1] If I misquoted Angelo Rule #14 somebody *please* correct me.

was this at hustler?


i dont hate your preflop call cause youre on the button. with that many players youd make this call at 15-30 so why not make it at 40-80? anyone who knows anything knows that just because the limits a bit higher doesnt by any means mean the players are any better. it just means theyre richer. nevertheless a fold here couldnt possibly be wrong obviously.


as for the turn.. hmm i think i would really consider checking on the turn. you may get someone with something like JJ to bet into you on the river figuring you for a T or a busted flush draw. id be afraid of a really nice hand like a set or straight raising me while im on a flush draw.


river seems like a clear fold to me but i really like to fold on the river so i could be way off.

one nice thing about the river is that you now have a K kicker instead of a 9.


nice job moving up there. hope it's a lucrative decision for ya. was this at hp or hustler?

This was at HP. I think the pre-flop call wasn't too bad considering I was pretty positive the blinds would call and we would see the flop 5-handed, the game was pretty loose(we even had a couple 7-handed family pots in the 2 hours I played). I think the flop bet was automatic, given my 2nd nut flush and gutshot draw, but I really wish I hadn't bet the turn. I guess I thought that the raiser had a mid pair(he would make this same play) and he would lay it down on the turn. The superfish didnt really concern me. On the river, I think I had another brain-aneurysm and just looked at the size of the pot and decided i didnt want to be bluffed out, even though the board was screaming that there was no way I could win. Maybe it's a leak in my game, but I just don't lay down too many hands on the river(heads-up) when the pot gets to be that size(11BB).


He turned over J9h for the turned straight. After playing 15-30 and 20-40 for the past 4 months, I am in complete agreement that the players in the higher limits don't necessarily play better, they only have more money. Sometimes I just wonder how they can continually lose and come back for more, is that occasional 4 rack night enough for them? Not that I am complaining.


First time I have been to HP in quite some time, thought I would check it out after a couple of people told me the games are just as good as Commerce. The move up to 40-80 definitely isn't permanent at this point, just exercising some game selection. Kinda funny, but I first sat down with $600 in the 15-30 and lost it in about an hour after a flopped JJ set and KK(twice) were cracked by gutshots and little two pair. I had put my car in valet(dont feel too comfortable walking to my car at HP) and was going home but realized that I had no money to pay the valet. Although I know many people do not agree, I believe in stop limits for losses, mainly because I just don't play that well when I am stuck a decent amount. Plus, I rarely play sessions longer than 6 hours. Withdrew $200 and decided just to play some shorthanded 20-40 with it and soon i was back in business with 2 racks(I still need to work on my short-handed skills but the people I played with were AWFUL). I walked out with a nice win in 40-80, thank god I couldn't come up with $2 to pay the valet.

Calling before the flop is totally wrong, I am surprised there is even a debate.


D.

I don't disagree that it isn't a bad play, but given my read of the preflop raiser and the type of game that I was in, I think the circumstances make the play a little better. I throw this away in a lot of tough games, but most of the games I play in are loose(the schooling theory at work). I realize that this hand shows that my game needs a LOT of work, but as long as I play better than most of my opponents and a lot better than one or two, I will continue to do ok.


DN

Like others here, I'm gonna say don't call before the flop. Note that I did not say muck....either muck or 3-bet...I'm finding myself 3-betting suspect raisers much more often.


And, I'm losing a lot more...


Hmmm....


And oh yeah, I'd check the turn.


Josh