What price can get me a raise here on the river?

[phriedom]

The tournament has been less wild and crazy than usual, with people folding to big bets like they should, but calling mid-size raises where they shouldn't. We've just gone from 5 to 4 players and I'm in the BB.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (4 handed)

Hero (t2935)
UTG <font color="purple">(bystander)</font> (t2415)
Button <font color="purple">(Ican'tfold)</font> (t1955)
SB <font color="purple">(Ismellfishy)</font> (t695)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG <font color="purple">(bystander)</font> folds, Button <font color="purple">(Ican'tfold)</font> calls t50, SB <font color="purple">(Ismellfishy)</font> completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t150) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Ismellfishy bets t50, Hero calls t50, Ican'tfold calls t50.

*Ok, I just called 50 with only 3 straight-flush. Its a weak play, but I feel like they don't have anything either and I'm the chip leader.*

Turn: (t300) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Ismellfishy checks, Hero checks, Ican'tfold bets t100, Ismellfishy calls t100, Hero calls t100.

*oops, I just drew 4 straight and 4 flush. Hey, I could get something here. Got the pot odds, make the call.*


River: (t600) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>

*I just hit the nut straight-flush. I'm afraid to check/raise because I might get a check behind me. I want to make a bet that will look like a weak bluff and get a raise.*

Ismellfishy checks, Hero bets t300, Ican'tfold folds, Ismellfishy folds.

Final Pot: t900

Should I have min bet this? 200? Maybe an anti-bluff all-in to look like a bluff? I don't think these two would call an all in, but they'd been calling when they shouldn't and trading money back and forth.

I went on to win the tourney, but still feel like a blew a golden opportunity.

[JustTens]

I would check because if it does get checked around you probably wouldn't have gotten any callers with a bet anyways. This way any heart my bet or seone trying to steal might even bet. Then...fell free to fold.

Or call if you wanna play wild /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jason Strasser]

Alrighty then.

Preflop standard.

On the flop you have one overcard, a gustshot straight draw, and a runner-runner straight flush draw. I usually don't bother in this spot. Here is the logic. It won't take much for mega fishies to bet 50 in this spot. They think they have a good chance to win the pot. Because your hand is a draw, you need to have sufficient odds to chase. On the flop, you are drawing to the nuts (4 outs), and an iffy over card (3 outs). The odds you are getting 5:1 are good, but not good enough to justify drawing to 7 outs. What you need to realize is that you need someone to pay you off big time IF you hit, so that you can justify calling the flop bet (this is called implied odds).

So if you knew that fishy would bet 50 with Aces, or a top set, or some other monster that you could outdraw, then you should call, because if you hit you take his stack. The idea that "Oh I'm the chip leader and I can afford to make loose calls" is not smart. You don't make loose calls that lose you money regardless of your stack size.

On the turn, I actually like the call. You could raise, but then again, there is one very short stack in play, and right now you have jack high. Plus you'd like to keep this 3 handed so that if you hit your draw, you will get paid off.

The river is fine, you made a value bet, you didn't get called. Don't worry about that. Although this once again shows that you didn't have the correct odds (your opponents didn't pay you off) to make the loose flop call.

Preflop standard. Flop too loose (fold). Turn fine. River fine.

-Jason

[Sam T.]

I really like this hand as an object lesson in calling based on implied odds. The problem is not just getting your chips in the middle, it's getting your opponents' chips in the middle as well, and that means you have to have a hand that is disguised.

In this case you are just calling until a third heart hits, and then you come to life. If they don't have the str8 or A- or K-high flush, OF COURSE they are going to fold.

You need to think, "If my cards hit the board will it scare the bejezus out of my opponents." I wish I could think this far out.

[phriedom]

I think it is clear that the flop call was a bad move. Raise or fold, don't call...unless you're going to steal it on the turn but someone could have a hand by then. If an ace falls on either the turn or the river I have to fold.

Just maybe I could have checked on the river and gotten a couple hundred more out of it, but I should have thought ahead more on the flop instead of "oh well, its just 50." I guess if the turn and river had come rags and I made the exact same bets with the same results I wouldn't feel so dumb.