Ok so Full Tilt has some clever ads and marketing, is that enough?

[Jurollo]

After looking at the site I posted about earlier I realized that the Olympic thing is a shameful, yet brilliant marketing idea. But ads and star lineup of pro's aside, can FT legitimately crack the top 4 (even 5 counting prima) poker rooms within, say 1 year. I would think they would have to offer some huge bonuses and get some fishy play. Their cartoony software looks like jetsetpoker which I have seen before, not sure if they are skins of each other or not. I am skeptical that a new room can offer THAT much more to pull away customers from the other rooms but I guess we'll all see in time. I think the one thing that FT has done really well so far is pump some ad money in, with a good, albeit sneaky campaign, and get a ton of recognizeable stars to push their room, is this gonna be enough to test some of the established rooms? anyone have any thoughts?

[gabyyyyy]

Speaking of which. Why the hell are there so many poker sites?

It is not like they compete or anything. All have almost the same rake structure. All have virtually the same promotions. Why not just have one site for everyone? It's not like there is a cap on the amount of players a site could handle.

For your question. No I do not think Fulltilt can take over the big 4.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
All have almost the same rake structure

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabby, you are 100% wrong saying something like this. We both know this is not even close to the truth. For instance, at Party/Empire and the skins the rake is 100% higher at 5.00 and 50% higher at 12.00. That's not the same as anybody else. That's highway robbery for low limit players. Anybody who plays low limits at Party is either an ignorant fool or an uninformed consumer. The rake there will eat you alive twice as fast as anywhere else.

Then, there's a sight that dosent charge a rake but a small monthly fee instead.

So don't ever say all sights charge almost the same rake again!!!! It's not even close to being a true statement.

[Jurollo]

I think if there was one huge site it would obviously be bad for us too because competition is good for the consumer (player). Basic economics principal, less competition the more power the retailer gets to fix prices higher (rake), etc.

[Nottom]

I don't know if they will be able to atract the players or not, but after playing in one of their beta freerolls I think they may have the best tourney structure of any online site.

Not terribly surprising considering who is behind it.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All have almost the same rake structure

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabby, you are 100% wrong saying something like this. We both know this is not even close to the truth. For instance, at Party/Empire and the skins the rake is 100% higher at 5.00 and 50% higher at 12.00. That's not the same as anybody else. That's highway robbery for low limit players. Anybody who plays low limits at Party is either an ignorant fool or an uninformed consumer. The rake there will eat you alive twice as fast as anywhere else.

Then, there's a sight that dosent charge a rake but a small monthly fee instead.

So don't ever say all sights charge almost the same rake again!!!! It's not even close to being a true statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

These things happen when one doesn't think before one types...it's habitual in the case of the referenced poster.

[WSOPWinner2005]

Why don't we all become drones ?

That's what this post amounts to, there are different sites out there due to competition which is a GREAT thing for us. Even if rake stays where it is... A change of sites does wonders when you are getting sick of the grind.

I say, The more the merrier if they can succeed

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody who plays low limits at Party is either an ignorant fool or an uninformed consumer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest you try it before you make that statement. You clearly have never played party low limit.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anybody who plays low limits at Party is either an ignorant fool or an uninformed consumer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest you try it before you make that statement. You clearly have never played party low limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It took me six months of playing there before I realized they nicked me for an extra 5 grand in rake over what most other sites charge at the same limits.

It seems you don't understand how rake affects your totals. For instance, if you play 1000-1500 hands a day and win 100 that are raked the extra .25 That extra quarter here and there, means 25 bucks a day, means 750 per month, means 9 grand per year.

Put it this way, would you enjoy using a toilet that REQUIRED you to throw ten quarters per hour into it so it would flush? Personally, I'd use the upstairs bathroom that didn't charge the extra fee to use.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
After looking at the site I posted about earlier I realized that the Olympic thing is a shameful, yet brilliant marketing idea. But ads and star lineup of pro's aside, can FT legitimately crack the top 4 (even 5 counting prima) poker rooms within, say 1 year. I would think they would have to offer some huge bonuses and get some fishy play. Their cartoony software looks like jetsetpoker which I have seen before, not sure if they are skins of each other or not. I am skeptical that a new room can offer THAT much more to pull away customers from the other rooms but I guess we'll all see in time. I think the one thing that FT has done really well so far is pump some ad money in, with a good, albeit sneaky campaign, and get a ton of recognizeable stars to push their room, is this gonna be enough to test some of the established rooms? anyone have any thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

No signup bonus and free rolls offering $20 bucks. Wow, could a site be more cheap during their first week? They made a huge blunder IMO. I don't think these guys could crack the top ten in a year at this rate. Players expect value when they choose a new site. This one isn't even on the radar screen yet.

[_And1_]

[ QUOTE ]
a sight that dosent charge

[/ QUOTE ]

one SIGH that you are promoting, you could be abit more subtile, but no...

European signups are unabled at the FTP at the moment as their cashier is faulty (some adress script is not working very well), refering to real money.

[Syntax]

I don't really agree with this. I think FullTilt will be in the top 4 by the new year. They are splashed all over every episode of the WSOP so far. Some of my non internet poker playing friends have asked me if I play with those guys at Full Tilt yet. Thats all they know about internet poker, and they think its cool.

Among playing with the pros, new players or current fish earn points and get the same jersey Phil Ivey wears or the same cards Jesus slices bannanas with. IMO to the rec player, this is a lot more attractive then what Party offers (which is nothing).

I do agree that for such a hyped site, Full Tilts opening has been quite unspectacular. But I dont think they've had thier "Grand Opening" yet, I think this is more like a continued beta now trying out real money. I have the newest issue of Cardplayer and the ads for the site all pump up the first week of August. I think they are having a $50k freefroll for all real money accounts with bounties on all the pro's. Im willing to bet they have some more stuff planned for that week too.

Right now they do have a 10% rake rebate which is better then nothing or even a bonus depending on how much you play.

I think the more successful they get, the better off we all are because then we will start seeing some real competition between the big sites.

[Synergistic Explosions]

What you say may be true. But personally, as a player who joins new sites regularly, I don't see any value in FTP to entice me to give them a deposit. 10% rake rebate? I can do much better elsewhere. $20 free rolls? I can do much much better elsewhere.

I'm sorry, but I see very little of value to get me there. Time may change things, but if they were going to offer a deposit bonus, it needed to be offered on day 1.

[WSOPWinner2005]

Were you around during full tilt's beta point blow out?

I got $7.50 for knocking out 4 people in 15 minutes and posting and folding the rest of the way......

They had massive freerolls non stop for DAYS prior to opening! Where do you think current real $$ is coming from? Simple, all their beta testers

Once it dries up THEN they have problems - and their concept of best freeroll trny players wil bring in enough rake to cover money we gave them will not work at all although the concept is thinking in the right direction..

But Like I said more sites the merrier... They obviously have the $$ to bankroll a campaign I want to see how they market.

[Synergistic Explosions]

Yeah, I'm playing there right now with some free money. I think just about everyone there right now is.

Someone tell them their clock is an hour off.

[_And1_]

Freerolls hurrah. The only thing they do for me is luring the fish to the site. And as it is their support is nonexistant (yea they got a autoresponse but that is all, responses on acctual quires have taken 5 days and still no response). That dont do it for me. If they are to take big chunks of the market they need to be up and running smoothly as the WSOP episodes come on ESPN. And they aren't...

The biggest advantage they might have is the fish (due to the stars). But as it is the poor support, disabled cashier, lack of deposit bonus, few freerolls, and so forth nullifies that. They aint going to go anywere in the next few month...

[Just The Facts]

[ QUOTE ]
Freerolls hurrah. The only thing they do for me is luring the fish to the site. And as it is their support is nonexistant (yea they got a autoresponse but that is all, responses on acctual quires have taken 5 days and still no response). That dont do it for me. If they are to take big chunks of the market they need to be up and running smoothly as the WSOP episodes come on ESPN. And they aren't...

The biggest advantage they might have is the fish (due to the stars). But as it is the poor support, disabled cashier, lack of deposit bonus, few freerolls, and so forth nullifies that. They aint going to go anywere in the next few month...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that there is even a single fish there right now. The true fish have barely heard of the pros that endorse the site. To the real fish, Money and Fossil are poker Gods, not that crew. The intermediate fish have heard of them, but they seem to be doing nothing but hanging on the rails. The players are either world class, or friend's of the world class players that are helping to fill seats. Full Tilt is likely to be profitable, but top 4 is not possible in the next year.

Also, am I the only one that thinks the red card backs against the red carpet makes it hard to get a feel for how many people are still in the hand? Maybe I am missing it, but I can't find the option to change any colors.

[RollaJ]

I emailed support asking about a sign up bonus, they said there is none. I of course see no reason to join then.
That being said there was a lot of juicy micro limit action going on /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. The big game I saw last night was 3-6, only 2 brave souls were playing that high though /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[fnurt]

There are two kinds of people, educated consumers and uneducated ones.

The people on this board are presumably all in the former group. We know what the various poker sites are, we've probably tried out several of them and may play actively at several. We have opinions about which sites have the best tournaments, best low limit games, best promotions, etc. If a site wants to lure people in this category, they need to offer something better than the competition, better software, lower rake, better bonuses, softer games, whatever.

I think the other category of people is much bigger though, and that's why sites have primarily been focusing on it. The people who sign up because they saw an ad on TV, or a banner ad online or whatever, often don't even realize other poker sites exist. So as long as you offer them a fun experience, it doesn't matter as much how you measure up.

The thing is that there are so many people getting involved in online poker right now, it really doesn't matter who is #1 or #2, any reasonably successful site is going to make a lot of money. Now a few years down the road, if the "fad" aspect dies down, and consumers become more educated and start comparing sites, we may find that only the best few sites are able to survive.

One other point bears making. A lot has been said about the relative rakes at various sites. All other things being equal, all of us would prefer a lower rake, and all of us would presumably prefer no rake at all. But all other things aren't equal. I work in the securities industry, and if you have a choice between two brokers, one who charges lower commissions, and one who earns you more money, you're going to go with the guy who puts more money in your pocket at the end of the day. By the same token, lots of people play the low-limit tables at Party, in spite of the higher rake, because they find they make more money there.

Zerorake seems to have a lot of appeal to the educated consumer, but only if it offers a better money-making opportunity, which it can't until it gains some popularity. And it doesn't seem to be getting marketed to the uneducated consumer who comprises the bulk of a site population, and even if they were, I wonder how many people who don't even play a poker site would be drawn in by the rakefree concept. It's not like a brand-new player anticipates playing 60 hours of poker a week, with the huge rake that implies; they figure they're only going to try it out a time or two anyway, so who cares if 50 cents gets raked.

There are a lot of marketing challenges here. It doesn't matter as much right now, because the pool of players is so big, but it will in the end.

[Jurollo]

[ QUOTE ]
To the real fish, Money and Fossil are poker Gods, not that crew. The intermediate fish have heard of them, but they seem to be doing nothing but hanging on the rails.

[/ QUOTE ]

That couldnt be more wrong. Most people don't even know who Greg is yet. As far as a lot of people are concerned the WSOP is happening every tuesday night. And of course these guys are known by the fish, ESPN goes nuts over Ferguson and Ivey whenever they are on and Lederer is all over the WPT, Fox Sports and will be on the WSOP for sure. I think you are way off base on every point here except that Moneymaker is a god to many dreamers who want to do the same thing he did.

[Just The Facts]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To the real fish, Money and Fossil are poker Gods, not that crew. The intermediate fish have heard of them, but they seem to be doing nothing but hanging on the rails.

[/ QUOTE ]

That couldnt be more wrong. Most people don't even know who Greg is yet. As far as a lot of people are concerned the WSOP is happening every tuesday night. And of course these guys are known by the fish, ESPN goes nuts over Ferguson and Ivey whenever they are on and Lederer is all over the WPT, Fox Sports and will be on the WSOP for sure. I think you are way off base on every point here except that Moneymaker is a god to many dreamers who want to do the same thing he did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken on the WPT stars. What i am saying is that the fish don't know a world class player from a one time wonder. There are many celebrity endorser players and management there, and only a few are T.V. Stars. The few WPT stars there won't turn them into Party Poker. Hellmuth and Annie Duke now know that celebrity alone won't make any site number one, and that losing market share is more of a reality.

Another point you have to realize is that there are several million poker fans that have never seen the WPT shows because travel channel is limited. All they know is the ESPN players. The ESPN stars include Russ Boyd as well by the way. My comment on Fossil was obviously misplaced because the 10k has not aired. My point was that the "guy with the crazy glasses" will be the most popular poker star very shortly, and will always get similar hero worship as Moneymaker. This hero worship will extend beyond whatever boring celebrities like quiet Ivey will ever enjoy.

There is currently 2 forces in poker. Chris Moneymaker and Mike Sexton.

[Jurollo]

I agree Greg will be huge and talked about by everyone who watches ESPN religiously. However, ESPN makes it a point to make a big deal about players such as Lederer, Ivey and Ferguson. They did last year and they will again this year, watch and see /images/graemlins/grin.gif