Big pot, sloppy play

[dave44]

Questions...

Does anyone raise this pre-flop? I probably would have if it were suited.

Is this flop bet any good? I figured I would call a bet with two overcards and a backdoor flush draw, so I tried to thin the field a bit.

On the turn I was thinking check-raise, but when it came back to me raised, I think I should have been thinking fold. I had to be beat with only 5 possible outs, perhaps none.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (7 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (24.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, Button folds, Hero folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, CO calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 36.50 BB

[dfscott]

I had a hand just like this the other day except I had pocket aces. Everything seemed normal until all hell broke loose on the turn. I got swept along to the river the same way you did.

I'd definitely raise this pre-flop with this many limpers because you probably have the best hand.

I agree with betting out the flop -- when you're raised, I'd call and see what the turn brings. When the craziness starts, it's easy to get carried away. But without any player reads, I think you only have 2 outs at this point because I don't think top 2 pair will win (MP3 looks like set). Folding to 2 cold is the best plan, I think.

Edit: I'm guessing UTG hit his straight and made MP3 pay off?

[k000k]

Preflop I raise AQo under any circumstance..

[Surfbullet]

Raise pf - you have a field of limpers who play most anything, you likely have the best hand and they will call with dominated ones.

Flop is fine IMO.

When you check the turn, are you planning a c/r? This is the best card you could have hoped for, so bet it! Else, a CR is a good idea, but when it comes back to you for 2 cold (with a bet from a previous cold-caller and a raise from CO for the 2nd street in a row) you can fold despite your turned ace. I would imagine CO has a 2 pair that wasn't enough, and there was a set (maybe 2? ) out there.

Dan

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
When you check the turn, are you planning a c/r? This is the best card you could have hoped for, so bet it! Else, a CR is a good idea, but when it comes back to you for 2 cold (with a bet from a previous cold-caller and a raise from CO for the 2nd street in a row) you can fold despite your turned ace. I would imagine CO has a 2 pair that wasn't enough, and there was a set (maybe 2? ) out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldnt have said it better, a 3bet is a much bolder move than a single raise... If you bet and you have to coldcall 2 more, you know it's over. In this case, you checked and it came back 2 to you.. What does that mean? Well not much.. Could be a lone ace trying to protect, could be a bluff, could mean anything.. 3-betting is a challenge to the raiser, which is rarely a bluff, cuz a raiser almost always calls one more. You called 2 which woulda been ok, (not great), but then you got socked for another one... Now you know you're toast, but it's only one more to see the next card, so you HAVE to call it.. You would have known this ahead of time had you bet out, and you woulda saved yourself 2 bets.

In a logical world: CO has 44 or 55, he's been betting hard as hell since the flop. MP3 hit his 2pair (AJ/A4/A5) since he came alive on the turn, and UTG hit his str8 draw on the river cuz he was just calling all along before the riv.

[dave44]

Thanks guys. Next time I raise pre-flop, bet the turn, and fold if its 2 bets to me. MP3 had 32s for a straight on the turn, then UTG had 67s for a higher straight thanks to that river. CO mucked.

[Brian]

Hi Dave,

I raise this pre-Flop close to 100% of the time. At the low limits, especially .5/1, your opponents are limping with so many trashy hands that it's a crime not to squeeze out that extra equity pre flop with a raise.

The Flop bet is fine, and I would have bet the Turn. You don't want CO to wuss out and check in fear of the Ace, and give all those players a free card. Check-raising isn't bad either, though. But once you've checked and it's two bets back to you on, I'd fold. You're getting 12:1 (6:1) on your call, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are drawing dead or close to it a high percentage of the time, and you're nowhere near closing the action, which means you may have to call 1 or 2 more bets. Blech.

The rest is good.

-Brian