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Jsb

07-15-2004, 01:14 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t1450)
BB (t620)
UTG (t2515)
Button (t3415)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of t300.
BB raises to t620 (All-In), UTG folds, Button calls t620, Hero (poster) calls t320.

Flop: (t1860) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button bets t1000, Hero calls t830 (All-In).

Turn: (t3690) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3690) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3690
Main Pot: t1860 (t1860), between Hero, BB and Button. > Pot won by Button (t1860).
Pot 2: t1660 (t1660), between Hero and Button. > Pot won by Button (t1660).
Pot 3: t170 (t170), returned to Button.

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Js As (two pair, aces and nines).
BB shows 6s 6c (two pair, nines and sixes).
Button shows 9h Jh (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: Button wins t3690. 

I had just gotten myself up to this chip stack a hand or two ago.
Preflop, i wasn't going to fold AJs, but i wasn't sure that pushing was right either, since small stack had already pushed, and i wouldn't have gained anything by pushing. besides, don't i want button in this pot so that hopefully one of us hits and kicks out the small stack?
on the flop, i had the nut flush draw, and overcards, so i figured i was right to call the push. not only that, but again, it gave more chances that one of us would beat the small stack. is this a bad way to look at it? if i called, if i won, awesome, if big stack won (which given his push on the flop there was a good chance he thought he would), fine, that lets me finish ITM at least, since i started with more chips.
of course, if i lost to Big stack, and big stack lost to small stack, i would be screwed there, but i thought my push gave me much better chances of finishing in the money.
so is this the wrong way to think about this, or is this a standard play and i'm just totally overanalyzing my play?

SumZero

07-15-2004, 02:14 AM

It depends on your read but I don't like your flat call preflop. Unless you think the Button is very tricky I think you should either fold and hope to end up in the money if he knocks out the short stack, or else push all in. As your bet may well push the other player out.

AtlBrvs4Life

07-15-2004, 02:18 AM

If you're going to call this bet, why not be the first to go all-in?

Jsb

07-15-2004, 02:23 AM

i was 100% positive that if i pushed, he would call, so i didn't feel like i should do so, but i also didn't feel right just flat calling. i definitely didn't want to fold, AJs seems like a really strong hand at this point in the tourney, especially given my chip stack.
given that if i push preflop, it is a sure thing that he will call, should i push anyways? without the shortstack all-in, this definitely would have been an automatic push for me, because the big stack definitely would have completed preflop either way.

Jsb

07-15-2004, 02:26 AM

you know what, this hand history somehow messed up. i was BB, the shortstack was UTG and the big stack was the SB. don't know how that happened, but i just copy and pasted, somehow the hand converter must have messed it up.
rest assured that AJs is an automatic-don't-even-think-twice push if i am the button here/first to act.

Jsb

07-15-2004, 02:29 AM

yeah, everytime i put it in the hand converter it for some reason gives me the incorrect hand assignment. i don't know why that would happen.
here is the correct hand history, unconverted

***** Hand History for Game 752845462 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 4686421) - Wed Jul 14 21:42:24 EDT 2004
Table Table 11664 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: jsb5391 (1450)
Seat 5: WILefty (620)
Seat 6: Toddo2631 (2515)
Seat 7: MikeCola (3415)
jsb5391 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jsb5391 [ Js, As ]
WILefty raises (620) to 620
WILefty is all-In.
Toddo2631 folds.
MikeCola calls (620)
jsb5391 calls (320)
Creating Main Pot with $1860 with WILefty
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9c, 5s, 2s ]
jsb5391 checks.
MikeCola bets (1000)
jsb5391 calls (830)
jsb5391 is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Ac ]
Creating Side Pot 1 with $1660 with jsb5391
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1860 | Side Pot 1: 1660 | Side Pot 2: 170
Board: [ 9c 5s 2s 9d Ac ]
jsb5391 balance 0, lost 1450 [ Js As ] [ two pairs, aces and nines -- As,Ac,Js,9c,9d ]
WILefty balance 0, lost 620 [ 6s 6c ] [ two pairs, nines and sixes -- Ac,9c,9d,6s,6c ]
Toddo2631 balance 2515, didn't bet (folded)
MikeCola balance 5485, bet 1620, collected 3690, net +2070 [ 9h Jh ] [ three of a kind, nines -- Ac,Jh,9h,9c,9d ]

ipp147

07-15-2004, 05:08 AM

my 2 cents,

I don't mind the flat call - I don't want to push and be called by the SB, likewise I don't want to push out the SB and lose to the short stack.

Maybe I'm being weak but my goal when I see this action is that I want the shortstack out. I therefore flat call and only make a move after that if the flop hits me - Top pair etc.

Once the SB has pushed in another 1000 here I think you have to credit that the flop has hit him (unless hes an idiot).

Maybe thats weak thinking?

Jsb

07-15-2004, 05:25 AM

i did credit that the flop hit him, i also think thats great. at that point, if i go all in there, i get kicked out, but i still get third place. the flop hit him, but with the nut flush draw and two overcards still, i'm not looking all that bad either. i thought that there was a great chance at that point that either he or i was going to take down that pot, since the flop had probably already hit him, and i had great potential with the flush draw, and my only shot at getting anything but third was to stay in. plus staying in made a better chance of getting the small stack kicked out.
is this reasoning flawed?