Stealing with limpers in front

[durron597]

So I just finished on the bubble in the Pokerroom 10+1 SnG. The bubble period was very bad for me; I never had a chance to steal. Top 40 players pay, the real money was in the top 10. In the last 60 or so I had about 20xBB (maybe a little more but not much). Anyway, I'm not here to ask people to cry for my bubble bust.

What I am here to ask about is stealing blinds when there are limpers in front. Nearly every single hand, at least one person limped (almost always someone who had me covered by quite a bit). I didn't want to try to raise to steal because, quite frankly, I was too scared of the slowplayed AA. So I kept my play almost entirely to premium hands unless a shortstack pushed in front of me on my BB. I think I was able to steal one or maybe two in the entire 60ish players to my bust at 41.

My busting hand was one of the few hands where it was folded to me with a decent hand: I had just under 4000 chips with 400/800 blinds, and A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in MP. I open push to blinds that have about 6000 (BB) and 5000 (SB), with some big stacks in between. Is this a bad play?

[fnurt]

Some people will tell you Ax is a bad hand to steal with from EP or MP, because so often when you get called you are dominated. I say it still depends on how often it is getting folded to you. With 5 BB in your stack, if this is one of the few opportunities you have seen, I would go for it too.

[cferejohn]

Not at all. I don't like to play Ax for a raise if stacks are deep because it's very hard to play postflop in a raised pot, but if I'm in all-in or fold territory, it's often a fine hand to go all-in with if the chance of everyone folding is good enough.

[SeppDeitrich]

if there are only 41 players left you should wait for 1 more to go out before you make your move. so long as you are fairly sure someone will go out soon.

[durron597]

Thanks for the responses, but this doesn't really answer my question: what do you steal with if there's 1 big stack frequent limper to you? Is a hand Like A4s worth it vs. K8s against a big stack on the bubble, in terms of $EV? (I mean, obviously it is in chipEV, but that isn't the same thing here).

[Piers]

How about adding adding three or four to your postion going counter clockwise form the big blind. Push with the same hands you would push with in that position.

[DonT77]

Exactly, we're not just looking for aggression - we're looking for controlled aggression. You should have waited for another spot IMO.

Regarding the Big Stack Limpers, I tend to limp along if I have a drawing hand, and I raise with a big hand, but I don't usually try to raise/steal without cards against big stack limpers because too often it seems like you'll get called/re-raised. OTOH, I've seem some very weak/tight players with big stacks that are so scared to get involved and these are some of the best stealing opportunities - this of course is very read dependent.

[durron597]

You would limp along if you have about 10x to 15xBB? I feel like that's a good way to grind your stack down. And as far as adding 3 spots to my normal stealing standards; there's very little I would steal with from UTG, so this limits my stealing to... the button. Which isn't often enough if you want to stay even.

[DonT77]

Sure, I'd limp with a drawing hand like JTs on the bubble as long as my 10x-15xBB stack was not one of the shortest remaining stacks. Yes, you'll lose a bet here and there, but if you ever flop anything good you could double-up quickly. Let's say you limp-call with JTs and the guy in front of you does have AA and the flop comes JT4,2-suited. He's going to give you all the action you want. Granted, this is probably best case - but there are a lot of other favorable flops you could hit too - so IMO, yes - you might be beat PF, but you have the implied odds to see the flop.
Anybody agree, disagree?

Let me say however, that I might raise with JTs in MP depending on my reads of the players still behind me including the limper.

[Vee Quiva]

I am also struggling with this issue on stealing with limpers in front. I think the problem is that you have to raise even more than the standard raise (possibly all in) to make sure you shake everyone off their hand. This may actually work better as you are close to the bubble and everyone is probably getting real conservative.

As for you Suited Ace push. Not a bad play. That close to the money, do you think betting half your stack would have been enough to steal instead of all of it? At least then maybe you see a flop as a worst case scenario.

Vee Quiva
www.pokerbully.blogspot.com (http://www.pokerbully.blogspot.com)

[durron597]

It was just SO frustrating... nearly every hand I wanted to try to steal with, there would be a limper. I suppose if I have a stack large enough that can handle losing a steal raise (13+xBB or so), I should just try to steal anyway (for perhaps a bit more than 3BBs) and try to take advantage of position if the limper calls, or fold if he pushes. Any comments on this? I tried it earlier today in the Pokerroom freeroll, and I managed to make it to 71/1600 before busting when I overplayed top pair of queens in the BB. But that's another story /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, of course betting half my stack is stupid. It was allin or fold, and I chose allin. I almost certainly could have limped into the money, but I wanted to win the damn thing /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And that is exactly what I was thinking when I pushed. It's not like I was stealing a big stack's blinds... both of the blinds were almost as small as me, and I felt that if anyone would fold, it would be those too guys.

Oh yeah, what happened? The BB called me with 88, no ace or diamonds for me, out in 41st.