Strong play or too aggressive?

[aces_full]

Paradise .10BB NL 4 handed

It's the very first hand at a new table. I'm UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif and I have the max-buy in of $10. I open-raise it to .50. It's folded around to the villain in the BB. Villain only came to the table with $3. Villain min re-raises to $1. I push. Comments??

[Richie Rich]

Bad habits can develop from playing in micro-NL games for too long.

[aces_full]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad habits can develop from playing too many micro-NL games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's useful. I feel like a better player already.

[Richie Rich]

I'm glad you were able to extract something useful from my comment.

Want me to be blunt? I think your move was awful. Perhaps you happened to beat one of the other monkeys who plays any two cards at that level, but you won't be successful if you consistantly play "marginal" NL hands (like KQs) that way at any of the higher limits.

I'll let others elaborate as to why (...though I'm sure some will disagree).

[aces_full]

A blunt answer is much more useful than a smartass answer.

[Zag]

It is a terrible play. Even if the other player is an idiot, he probably has an ace or a pair, and therefore he is ahead of you. At these levels, lots of people seem to think that they aren't allowed to fold in any round when they already put money in, so it is very possible that your "bluff" has no chance.

What was your thinking? Did you think of it as a bluff, or did you think you were betting for value, or what? I can't believe that you were ahead, so you were making a bluff, whether you thought of it that way or not.

Unless you are short-handed, KQ (suited or not) is an easy fold UTG. At a super-passive table, where you haven't seen a preflop raise in 5 circuits, then you might limp with it and hope for a good flop. Note, however, if you raise with it, then most (all?) calling hands are better than yours, AND most of them have position on you.

Pots odds are 3:1 and the villian only has $2 left in his stack for only another 4:1 implied odds. Therefore, I don't even think you should call his minimum raise. If he had started with $10, then you have a reasonable call. But then, what sort of flop would you be hoping for? (K x x) or (Q x x) are as likely to cost you your stack as to double it. Even (K Q x) is in trouble against KK or QQ. You are really looking for (K K x) or (Q Q x), but then you aren't likely to be paid off.

[aces_full]

You are 100% correct, at this limit players will raise and go all-in with all kinds of crap, so I was taking advantage of that. I was also playing big stack-vs-small stack. I had him well covered and figured I would give him the chance to fold by making him decide for all his chips if his hand was good. Obviously if he had a deeper stack I wouldn't be pushing here? Or is it the fact that I rasied KQ UTG in the first place that you don't like?

[aces_full]

I was thinking of it as a bluff against a short stack. It was a short handed game, only four players, so when I raised pre-flop, I figured to be holding a pretty good hand. Part of my logic here also has nothing to do with "correct play". I have been experimenting with mixing it up lately, making the occasional incorrect play, raising out of position, raising marginal hands, etc, but only once in a while under certain circumstances. Latley I have been starting to feel like my play has become too predictable.

I think I'm smart enough to know that KQ is a fold UTG unless it is short handed, but with only three opponents, it may very well be the best hand.

Turns out he had JJ, I caught a Q on the flop and won the pot.

[Richie Rich]

I completely ignored the fact that you were in a 4-handed game. In that case, KQs does go up in value...especially at those microlimits. But when a short stack min-raises your initial raise (5xBB), what kind of possible hands do you put him? He obviously has every intention to put his entire stack into the middle (no explanation should be necessary as to why), so I'd say AK/AQ/Axs/KK/QQ/JJ/TT seem "most likely" to me. This is assuming a reasonable player at a typical table...not a playground full of monkeys and banana peels.

Nevertheless, the habits you develop now will be harder to break down the road, when you're playing for real money (not chump change). That is what I was hoping you'd be able to take from my first post. Unfortunately, you won't be able to walk away from those microlimits with much "experience" beyond flush beats straight beats 3-of-a-kind beats...

[Zag]

I also missed the fact that you were only 4 handed. KQs is not that bad a hand 4-handed. On the other hand, I think I still would just have called preflop in order to see a flop.

[creedofhubris]

Fourhanded, KQs is a clear raise UTG.

(I will also play KQs UTG in a somewhat passive full NL ring game, although I see lots of advice against it. It's clearly a limping hand there.)

I hate, hate, hate the preflop push though. He's ahead of you (either a pp or an ace), and he's not going to fold for an extra $2. These guys never do. However, he's also unlikely to fold on the turn or the river for his last $2, so...

Call the min raise, and outplay him on the flop.

[Wayfare]

This is a terrible push. He most likely came to the table wanting to push a lot with the small stack, or to bait others into pushing into him. He at least has an ace, in which case you are behind and likely do not have the dead-money odds to call. In this case you were lucky, but I see people at the party 50's go broke this way all the time.