Need advice on these hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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vetman81

07-14-2004, 02:40 AM

Here are some hands from recent SNGs that I feel I played weakly and/or poorly (is there a difference?). Thanks for the help.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

SB (t1665)
BB (t800)
UTG (t230)
UTG+1 (t750)
MP1 (t800)
Hero (t800)
MP3 (t815)
CO (t1435)
Button (t705)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t15, Hero calls t15, MP3 folds, CO calls t15, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Maybe I shouldn't be limping with KJo?

Flop: (t75) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets t15, BB calls t15, MP1 folds, Hero calls t15, CO folds.

I should have raised him right here, got it to HU and took lead in the hand.

Turn: (t120) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets t50, BB folds, Hero calls t50.

River: (t220) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets t225, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t445

Results in white below: 
SB doesn't show.
Outcome: SB wins t445. 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

CO (t1895)
Button (t755)
SB (t170)
BB (t735)
UTG (t785)
Hero (t720)
MP1 (t815)
MP2 (t1420)
MP3 (t705)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises to t60, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to t105, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls t45.

Flop: (t235) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t100, Hero calls t100.

I checked/called because I thought he might have AK or AQ.

Turn: (t435) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

When he checks here, I am sure I have him beat, so I bet out on the river.

River: (t435) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP2 calls t100.

Final Pot: t635

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ah Th (one pair, aces).
MP2 shows Qc Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins t635. 

I win this hand but I still don't like my play on it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed)

SB (t1000)
Hero (t955)
UTG (t2015)
MP1 (t595)
MP2 (t780)
CO (t1380)
Button (t1275)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t90) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t90) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets t30, Hero calls t30, Button folds.

River: (t150) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t75, SB folds.

Final Pot: t225

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Tc Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins t225. 

This is the worst one, IMO.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

UTG+1 (t785)
UTG+2 (t915)
MP1 (t620)
MP2 (t875)
MP3 (t935)
CO (t700)
Button (t795)
Hero (t785)
BB (t650)
UTG (t940)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, MP1 calls t15, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, Hero raises to t100, BB calls t85, UTG+2 calls t85, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button calls t85.

Flop: (t430) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Button bets t40, Hero calls t40, BB calls t40, UTG+2 folds.

I really dislike my check here, but being early in the tourney, I didn't want to put a lot of chips in here. Should I have made a big bet to take it down right here?

Turn: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.

Same here.

River: (t550) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets t50, Hero calls t50, BB calls t50.

Final Pot: t700

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ks Ac (one pair, aces).
BB shows Ad Td (one pair, aces).
Button shows As 4s (two pair, aces and fours).
Outcome: Button wins t700. 

Well there are the ones I am concerned with. Thanks for everyone's help with these SNGs. I feel my play is getting better, especially shorthanded from all the advice I have received. Thanks again and keep it coming.

Jason Strasser

07-14-2004, 12:15 PM

Hand 1 with KJo: I do not like how you played this hand. First of all, I think the limp PF is debatable. There are a lot of solid SNG players like Frozen_Fish who love to limp PF with a lot of hands. The edge they have postflop, combined with the implied odds of deep stacks early, make this profitable. You need to be able to play postflop well to make a limp in MP with KJo. I limp with KJs here all day long, but I am not a huge fan of KJo because it is so hard to play postflop. Dumping it isn't a bad idea.

But on the flop, there is no excuse for not raising. You flopped a J76 rainbow, you have TPGK, your hand could very likely be good. You must raise here the pot. If someone reraises, you can probably fold. If someone calls, make a good bet on the turn and fold to a raise. (player dependant) Sitting there and calling passively is bad poker. I love playing against people who play this hand the way you did. Don't be someone people like to play against.

Bascially, you were just lost this hand. There is a great shot your hand was good at showdown IMO, but you didn't play it correctly. The fold at the end isnt horrible, but you shouldn't put yourself in that spot.

Hand 2 with ATs: Yikes. Don't raise preflop. Bad idea, at least when I play. Especially from early position. Reasons why you dont raise:

1) Blinds aren't worth stealing.
2) If people call you, especially passive players, you will be lost on the flop if it comes ace high and there is action.
3) You are looking for a very specific flop with ATs, and it doesnt necessarily involve an ace. You want lots of people in the hand, because ATs does well mutli-way.

Limp. Raising will only create problems. I limp AJs here too, and raise AQo and AQs, although many will say to limp with AQo in EP which I can't really argue with.

The flop again is terrible.

[ QUOTE ]
I checked/called because I thought he might have AK or AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if that is true, then you are either drawing to a runner runner straight, or a runner runner boat, or you are drawing to a 3 outer. If that is your read, check/fold. But then again, how could you have this read? If you are going to raise ATs preflop, and flop top pair, you should bet this flop. If you limped, then this hand IMO is much easier to get away from. This is a situation where problems compounded, and check calling is not a good place to be.

The read you made on the turn was solid. I'd value bet a little more on the river. But again, I don't like this hand. And a tricky player like me may even check the river with a hand like a set of kings. Although that would be an auto-reraise preflop (as with QQ).

You played this passively, and I guess you could say you "induced a bluff". But to me it looks like you were just lost in the dark with no plan.

Hand 3 with KTo: This may be one of those rare spots where playing passive is good. I certainly think the check on the flop is good. I hope you were not planning on check/calling, but check/folding if the limper had bet the flop. When the SB bet 30, it could be an ace-no kicker, but more likely a weak king or a turned jack. You have a weak king. You could raise here, but if you get called go check/check on the river. I don't mind your plan of calling the 30 on the turn though. It's rare to hear me say that, but I think calling here is appropriate.

I like your river value bet. It is fairly clear you are ahead, although there is a tiny chance he has KJ, but its doubtful.

Hand 4 with AK: Oh the joys of playing AK. I feel the pain with you here. You raise with it out of position, which is good because weak aces and hands you beat will call you, but you don't get a pretty flop at all. I would very much consider check/folding on the flop, but when it got back to you, you had great odds to call the bet of 40 to try to spike a king. An ace here isn't great, as you could be up against a weak ace that has caught the flop. I would say 40-50% of the time in this game an ace on the turn would give u the best hand, because of the potential for a straight or a two pair. A king to me looks like a clean out, although I guess there could be some weak king mixed in there. I like the flop call.

The river is good, as I said, there is no reason to expect that you are ahead. This type of hand sucks, but I think too many players tend to flail away at this type of flop with AK, which I think is a terrible play. This river would be a borderline value raise if there wasnt a possible straight in play...

Hope that helped. I really think you need to work on your aggression a little bit. When you are done with a hand, let it go. If you limp with KJo, which you really don't have to, then play it aggressively when you get an ideal flop.

Good luck,
-Jason

Sam T.

07-14-2004, 01:23 PM

Hand One: Limping is probably not a good idea here unless you are very comfortable playing after the flop. Against an aggressive player, you can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble. I think you've got to be far more aggressive on the flop, 'cause this is about as good as it gets for you. What would it have taken for you to bet? A straight? Two pair? Raise the pot or more. In the end, you probably folded a winner.

Hand Two: I'm okay with limping, but I don't much like the raise here. Unless you land the flush, you are once again opening yourself up for serious trouble. If you limp, you can then fold to the re-raise. Post-flop:

[ QUOTE ]
I checked/called because I thought he might have AK or AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a reason to check-fold. Once he checks, you are probably in good shape to bet, but AJ would beat you.

Hand Three:
You will get called by a weak ace many times.

Hand Four:
I wouldn't raise so much PF. You need to raise enough to get out the trash, and you can do so with a lot less. I hate just calling with unimproved overcards. You might catch one, but more often it will just bleed you dry. Look at the flop and then either take a stab at the pot or shut it down.

Now I'll got see what Jason had to say, and learn the right answers for myself.

BradleyT

07-14-2004, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I feel my play is getting better

[/ QUOTE ]

Yowser, I'd hate to see how you played before.

JKo with 9 left = fold. If you are going to play it at least raise when you hit.

ATs with 9 left = limp. This is a clear cut drawing hand looking for nut straight, nut flush, strong two pair.
"I checked/called because I thought he might have AK or AQ." If you thought that you shouldn't have played this hand in the first place unless you think you can outplay him postflop when an ace hits (doubtful) or a blank board hits (maybe).

KTo = ok. Can't ask for much more than this. If someone bets flop you probably have to dump. I probably check call turn and fold river to a strong bet, or bet it for value on river if checked to. No one showed any type of strength here so you being in the lead is a good probability.

AKo in sb is tricky. You raise to 100 to try and get rid of the fluff hands but no one folds. I don't think I'd raise to 100 here. But when you do raise to 100 you must have a plan of attack for when the flop misses you and for when it hits you because you're out of position the entire hand. With this much strength shown PF I think you need to play this hand as if it were AA, not 72o like you did. I probably push all in on flop and hope no one calls. But if it were me in the hand I would have bet less preflop and probably let it go because I didn't have many chips invested anyway.

William

07-14-2004, 04:58 PM

Hand 1: This is a preflop fold. Just accept that.

Hand 2: In early position this is also a preflop fold. AT only playable from button-3

Hand 3: Well played, as long as we agree that if SB bets on the flop, it's a fold.

Hand 4: With so many callers, a very big raise normally wins the pot right there.
Post flop, if you don't hit I would advice to let go the hand.

I think you play too many hands. You need to be more selective or you will get in trouble in the long run.

GL to you,
William