Standard Play?

[The Dude]

I took some heat from someone sweating me on this hand, but it felt standard to me. Just want to see what y'all think.

Decent 20-40 game a few weeks back. UTG is a decently solid lady, although she is a bit loose preflop and doesn't raise often enough. She is also fairly uncreative postflop. LMP is tight, but errs on the side of weak/tight. The rest of the table is pretty loose.

Preflop: <font color="blue"> (9 Handed) </font>
5 limpers to me on the button, I raise w/ 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. BB calls, all call.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 Players)</font> (14 SBs)
BB checks, UTG bets, EP folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, LMP calls, I raise. BB drops, all call.

Turn: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 Players)</font> (11 BBs)
Checked to LMP who bets, I raise. UTG calls two cold (without putting a second thought into it), MP1 folds, LMP 3-bets, I cap. UTG calls two cold (again w/o thinking twice), LMP calls.

River: T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (23 BBs)
UTG bets, LMP calls, I fold.

Comments?

[Michael Davis]

How could you fold the river?

-Michael

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Michael,

How could you fold the river?

Because his pot odds aren't all that great, all things considered.

GoT

[3rdCheckRaise]

25:1 on a call is not that good? True,he is most likely beat there but i 'd still call one here...Now if that would be two i'd probably fold...

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
25:1 on a call is not that good?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not getting 25:1. Do you see why?

[bicyclekick]

cause you're hoping to chop.

[3rdCheckRaise]

ok let me refrase it ...1:25 not to lose it...but yeah it is not as appealing ...may be you right ...but i still call it down...

[bernie]

Yep, it's kind of obvious you're beat on the riv.

I did this flop play tonight. Pretty much the same situation. Except i missed and had to fold the turn. When i first did it, i was thought....uh, hmmm. Should i have really done that? I think it's fine, though. They wont necesarily put you on it if it hits. Especially since you raised it preflop. Yet some weak, monsters under the bed types will put you on the flopped nuts.

I really don't see anything wrong with the hand. Unless i'm missing something.

b

[tolbiny]

Unless i'm missing something

have you had your coffee yet today bernie...

[The Dude]

Hey, bernie. I'm beginning to think that maybe you've never actually been to the Muckleshoot. See, I've played there 6 or 7 times in the last month. Yeah, still haven't seen you there. (Or Slavic, for that matter.) What's the deal, eh?

[ike]

Flop raise is not what I'd call "standard" but I like it. Your hand has a good deal of equity here and both the turn freecard (even if its infrequent and even though you many not always choose to take it) and BB fold are of great value. The play on all the other streets is automatic. UTG has the flush, its not likely, its certain. (I guess one in a hundred times she has 98, you lose to that one too)

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm beginning to think that maybe you've never actually been to the Muckleshoot. See, I've played there 6 or 7 times in the last month. Yeah, still haven't seen you there. (Or Slavic, for that matter.) What's the deal, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

When do you go up there? Im playing there quite a bit this month. Im usually up there on tues/thurs-sun. Weekdays in the afternoon to evening. Weekends early evening to ...whenever i bust out. When do you go up there?

I haven't seen slavic in there for quite awhile. Not sure where he's been.

b

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not getting 25:1. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it's not about pot odds at this point. It's about how often you'll beat the other players with this hand. Having to overcall drastically reduces your chances of winning the hand.

If you were headsup and figured you'd win this hand more than 1/25 times, call. But with the other player in, you have to win more the 1/25 twice. Which is pretty sucky.

This is why overcalling with a shaking holding is bad.

Regards,

T

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Because it's not about pot odds at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's all about pot odds on the river. Is my hand good 1 in x times (x being calculated via pot odds)? If yes, then I must call. If no, I should usually fold. But in this case it's obvious the old man to my right also has a 5. In which case I'm not calling to win the pot, I'm calling to chop. So in effect the pot odds are 1/2 what they would typically be. I'm really getting only 12.5:1 to call.

It really doesn't make much difference, though, because I'm folding either way. UTG has a flush here, and there's no way around it. Re-read my description of her and how she acted on the turn and it's 100% obvious. I estimate she's bluffing &lt;1% of the time. Maybe much less.