set of queens - flop decision [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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detruncate

07-13-2004, 04:58 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero ???

What's your play, and how do you plan to approach the turn?

Sent

07-13-2004, 05:02 PM

Cap it and lead the turn, or raise the turn if someone leads into you, only thing beating you is AA. PF play doesn't indicate it, can't put it past these jokers, but your hand is super strong right now. Rainbow flop too /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Sent

Kluddeludde

07-13-2004, 05:06 PM

Either cap it or call and raise the turn. Both alternatives are good.

Kludde

JDErickson

07-13-2004, 05:09 PM

I call the 3 bet and raise the turn. SB will probably bet the turn becuase he Cr'd the flop. Make him pay on the turn. Hope he 3 bets so you can cap the turn.

I would also raise the river unless it is a real scary card.

SnakeRat

07-13-2004, 05:09 PM

No need for deception here, looks like there is a set of sixes and 2-pair out there, jam the pot, all the way.

Jaran

07-13-2004, 05:22 PM

I'm capping here. If the 3bettor was to my left rather than in the SB, then I would think about calling with the plan of c/r'ing the turn. As it is, with the bet coming from my right, I want to cap it here and bet/raise the rest of the way. I can't see you being behind here, unless SB won't 3bet his Aces pf.

-Jaran

bisonbison

07-13-2004, 07:38 PM

I'd call and raise the turn.

Vern

07-13-2004, 07:48 PM

I call the flop three-bet and go to raise after the SB leads out and hope the BB and/or UTG+1 has called his turn bet. I think this gets more money in the pot from the trapped players as well as possibly the SB than capping the flop. You only have to be able to get 1.5BB more out of your opponents on the Turn to make calling the flop the better play.

HajiShirazu

07-13-2004, 07:48 PM

I think on average both options will win about the same amount. If you cap here, you might have a better chance to cap the turn against another big hand like a set of sixes, which will probably bet out on the turn, and might 3-bet if you raise the turn. But if you smoothcall here and wait until the turn, more players will put you on a monster and will just call your turn raise instead of 3-betting. Probably more significant, the other two players in this hand might not have any interest in calling on the turn as their backdoor straight and flush draws will often not materialize. So you make more by getting the small bet here against them.

bisonbison

07-13-2004, 08:04 PM

Hmmm. I'm gonna have to think about this.

kgrad5

07-13-2004, 08:15 PM

i think with the overcalls your best play is to call the flop and then raise the turn and dont look back, you want to keep these guys in the pot as long as possible, if you cap the flop you run the risk of someone folding imo and you lose out on BB on the turn

SnakeRat

07-13-2004, 08:15 PM

These jokers probably think a cap means AK/AQ and will rule out AA/QQ. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Transference

07-13-2004, 08:29 PM

I think your are virtually guaranteed 4 more sb's with a cap. I vote cap here, the action is almost always going to slow down significantly on the turn so get that money in now. As a further benefit when the action inevitably slows your going to have weaker hands calling because they are "pot invested."

I'm anxiously awaiting the rest of the hand.

tacoshooter

07-13-2004, 08:35 PM

I'm going to lose a lot of money on this hand with this flop if the rockets are in there -- because I'm not going to believe AA until someone shows it to me. (Unless, of course, Pokertracker shows me that my opponent only caps with AA. Then I probably fold.)

In most of the .50/1 games I've played in at Party I'm on the gas. The toilets will come along if they have any piece.

detruncate

07-14-2004, 02:01 AM

Thanks for the imput everyone. I agree that it was probably a close decision between smooth calling and capping. My usual play has been to cap while I have players trapped and see how the turn plays out, but it often seems to kill the turn action so I'm experimenting with the alternative.

Ok... for better or worse, we've opted not to cap. What do we think of the turn?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero ???

SnakeRat

07-14-2004, 02:03 AM

This is the most straight-forward cap ever. Only AA beats you.

detruncate

07-14-2004, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think on average both options will win about the same amount. If you cap here, you might have a better chance to cap the turn against another big hand like a set of sixes, which will probably bet out on the turn, and might 3-bet if you raise the turn. But if you smoothcall here and wait until the turn, more players will put you on a monster and will just call your turn raise instead of 3-betting. Probably more significant, the other two players in this hand might not have any interest in calling on the turn as their backdoor straight and flush draws will often not materialize. So you make more by getting the small bet here against them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lots to ponder here. I've been approaching the problem from a different direction. Thank you for taking the time to think it through so thoroughly.

bisonbison

07-14-2004, 02:05 AM

capadapadopolis.

He's psychotic with AQ, A6, or 66 (or AK, KJ or somesuch) more often than I think he's got AA. Besides, you've got two callers, who're helping you out. You have the second nuts, cap the fricking turn.

Jaran

07-14-2004, 02:06 AM

I'm capping here, especially with the BB and Button calling everything. I have a hard time putting SB on AA, although I suppose it is possible. If he leads the river after my cap, I'll call it down. If he checks the river, I'm definitely betting.

-Jaran

detruncate

07-14-2004, 02:50 AM

The turn play is not nearly as much fun as the flop decision was, so I'll cut this short and post the results for those curious types out there.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero caps, Button calls $1.50 (All-In), SB calls, BB calls.

River: (30 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 32 BB
Main Pot: 28.50 BB, between Hero, Button and SB. > Pot won by Hero (28.50 BB).
Pot 2: 3.50 BB, between Hero and SB. > Pot won by Hero (3.50 BB).

Results below:
SB shows Ah 6s (two pair, aces and sixes).
Hero shows Qd Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Button shows Tc Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 32 BB.

SnakeRat

07-14-2004, 03:02 AM

Im trying to figure out what BB held...

Maybe Q6/images/graemlins/club.gif. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oops that doesn't work you have the clubbing Queen

detruncate

07-14-2004, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Im trying to figure out what BB held...

Maybe Q6/images/graemlins/club.gif. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oops that doesn't work you have the clubbing Queen

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to figure this out make my brain hurt. I blame you.