QQ early in game.

[WarmonkEd]

This is the 8th hand in a $5 SnG. I felt it was one of those "close" situations. So I folded. Yay or Nay?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t10 (10 handed)

MP3 (t945)
CO (t1220)
Button (t945)
SB (t990)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t1260)
UTG+1 (t990)
UTG+2 (t750)
MP1 (t1020)
Hero (t880)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t10, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises to t45</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t70, MP1 calls t35.

Flop: (t255) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets t255</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t510
<font color="green">Main Pot: t255 (t255), won by MP1.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t255 (t255), returned to MP1.</font>

[ddubois]

I would have raised more pre-flop, probably 120. I think SOP for re-raises is to go about 3x their raise. Why this is SOP, I do not know.

First I eliminate KK from his holdings, because I really don't think he would cold-call your re-raise with KK - it's too risky to let AK have a cheap chance at flopping an A. Maybe he is weak/passive and wants to see if there is an ace before committing, but that's atypical behavior.

I think I eliminate 66 thru 99 - unless he's doing a stop and go, these hands would rather get their fold equity in pre-flop? Not sure about that one.

On the flop I certainly eliminate 88 for sure, no one can resist setting a trap there with a set, given you were the last to show strength pre-flop.

I'm also inclined to eliminate AA. The type of person who will raise AA, then smooth-call a re-raise, is the type of person to slowplay the flop, let you bet (since you put in the last raise, it's very safe to assume you will bet), then check-raise you.

Therefore I think his play is consistent with pairs TT-QQ - he smooth-called because was scared of AK, and wants to see a flop. Now that he sees there is no AK, he is happy with his overpair. In conclusion, I think you folded the best hand.

[AtlBrvs4Life]

I don't know how you can fold on this flop. What kind of flop were you hoping for? A Q Q? I'd be more inclined to push or raise on the flop. The majority of the time you will be ahead here. I also agree with ddubois that you need to reraise more pre-flop.

[stupidsucker]

Id be raising a lot more preflop, and I would push this flop after he bet not fold.

Id put him on 99-JJ at best, or maybe AdKd.

Its possible he has 88 and flopped a set, but if so oh well.

if he had KK or AA, he would have re-raised you preflop, (if not then he is a total dumbass, which isnt unlikely).

This flop is fine for you... Its damn near perfect.

Its great that you are at least thinking of releasing QQ, because too many people will play it ALL IN reguardless of threats or preflop action, but this isnt a good time to toss it IMO.

[pokerkai]

I think you folded the best hand for reasons stated above.

Youve got to get the proper train of thought because it looks like your trying to hard to "make good folds".

You obviously thought your hand was ahead of the raiser in front of you (and with good reason!) and that is why you raised. His call certainly shouldnt scare you.

You were most likely up against an Ace with a big kicker that missed or a smaller pair.

[Jurollo]

full agreement here. The real question that you need to ask, which was posed earlier, is what kind of flop you looking for? any flop without an A or Q and non paired board is great for QQ. Unless you can realisitcally put your opponent on AA or KK, which in this case you can't, PUSH THIS FLOP! The flush can't scare you either, get your chips in before the 3rd diamond falls and give yourself the odds.

[Hood]

Similar QQ early thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=singletable&amp;Number=814124)

[WarmonkEd]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks.

[RoyalSampler]

Hey sucker, are you happy going all in preflop with Q's? I've found them very profitable due to the idiot count in $10 SnG's at UB. Unless I have reason to suspect better play I'm usually happy reraising the pot and happy to go all in if required. Just curious. My old standard was KK this early, but how many times am I called by 7's 8's AJ, Q9s even!!!

[Bmurn]

i agree with whoever said something about idiot count (on moms slow laptop and dont wanna go back /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). But whoever said it, is making the best point on the call. I would say that you are ahead 90% of the time with this call, especially because it is the first 5 hands. I dont know why but in STT's, i think people have a strategy of doubling up in the first couple hands and then riding to the end. I know all of you know what im talking about too. Its that guy that goes all in with KTo under the gun and gets called by Q9s and some other dump hand. So i say, the real question is if you should slow play, waiting for him to push or should you push there on the flop. I would definitely push there 100% of the time because on STT's people hate folding big pots, i bet he would call your re raise push about 80% of the time. IMO i think you folded your best hand for that tourney.

[Jurollo]

Royal, I personally make it a habit to NOT go in preflop with QQ and the idiot count is the exact reason. If you are playing against players who will push with A2-AK and K9-KQ then the QQ becomes less profitable preflop. I usually go 75-100 preflop, to take out the weaker hands and then go from there, if I meet a huge reraise I normally lay it down. There is a lot of hands that can beat you on the flop and a lot of players who will play those so long term the push is -EV in the low levels IMHO.

[ddubois]

If you are playing against players who will push with A2-AK and K9-KQ then the QQ becomes less profitable preflop.
These players are precissely why you'd love to be all-in pre-flop. You don't get unlimited opportunities to be a 7:3 favorite, exploit them while you can.

[slogger]

reraise prflop to at least 125 (preferably 145). This should usually make your flop decision easier. I don't think this fold is horrendous, but it could easily be a diamond draw. I don't think I could lay this down to $5 SnG player, unless I knew him/her very well.

I'd probably push.

[RoyalSampler]

Honestly I don't think I would be exaggerating to say I've won 5:1 pushing Q's early game (yes ahead of what the statistics would suggest). We're not playing WSOP finalists /images/graemlins/smile.gif just try it. But to be sure I will never push J's early (well never is a strong word /images/graemlins/smirk.gif). Q's to J's is a big jump. And pushing gives you fold equity, oh it's a bargain! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif