Flop decision with a good draw

[tolbiny]

good live 5-10 game, my image is T/A if anything as i recently won 4 pots in a row without a showdown.
6 limpers to me in the c/o i call with 9,7 /images/graemlins/club.gifs.
Sb raises, BB folds all others call.
flop comes J /images/graemlins/club.gif,9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,4 /images/graemlins/club.gif
checked around to my immediate right who bets.
Raise here for the free card/clean up my two pair outs perhaps, or call for the monster pot of the night?
Also- if you suspect the Sb to be ready to C/R his Big PP does this change your decision?

[joker122]

Read this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=818063&page=&view=&sb =5&o=).

[adanthar]

If SB is going to CR, easy call-3 bet.

If not...hmm, 8 people in, 2 pair might not be good if you hit...yeah, raise it up.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
If SB is going to CR, easy call-3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. SB's play looks more like AK or AQ and is reluctant to semi bluff into 7 players.

[tolbiny]

Just say that your read on the sb is a check raise here-
go for the trap- or see if he wants to three bet to clear out the field.

[sthief09]

raise. raise preflop too, for shits

also how is your image tight-aggressive if you haven't shown a hand down?

[joker122]

Did you read the thread I linked you to?

I would raise.

[tolbiny]

My image is based upon how the others are reacting to my bets/raises, not the hands i have shown down. Four hands in a row- three that i raised preflop- not seeing a showdown means they are respecting my bets to some extent.

[tolbiny]

I did read the thread you linked, and it was the answer i was looking for to my first question.

the second one is slightly different if you can expect the sb to check raise him. In this situation you can just call, and go for the three bet when it comes back to you, or raise and hope he three bets.
Say he will raise from the sb with AKs, AA-QQ, and occasionally AKo or AQs(i have played with this guy a couple of times and this seems reasonable to me)- he will limp raise with AA-QQ, but three bet only with AA and KK.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
the second one is slightly different if you can expect the sb to check raise him. In this situation you can just call, and go for the three bet when it comes back to you, or raise and hope he three bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I got ya...I would raise no matter what.

*unless I knew he'd only CR this flop with JJ, then I'd just call.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. SB's play looks more like AK or AQ and is reluctant to semi bluff into 7 players.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a live game. If the OP says 'it looks like a CR', I can go with the read. Course, then it's a matter of how much you trust the read.

But yes, without the CR you need to raise. With 4 or 5 people in I'd think about it more because 2p is more likely to be good when it hits and I can take my overlay (is this wrong? Ideas?) but with eight in and a pot this big already, I want every out I can get and ought to start cleaning them up.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
*unless I knew he'd only CR this flop with JJ, then I'd just call.

[/ QUOTE ]
If I know he has JJ, I'm still only about a 7:3 dog. There's seven others in, all of them drawing near dead to at least one of the two of us. I'm about 100% certain to call/3 bet and hope he caps.

[tolbiny]

I just finished the "pet peeves" section, and since some posters hate it when you dont give the results, here are the results.

I raised the flop, and the Sb three bet, it was folded to me and i called. Turn brought my flush, check, bet, call. river a blank, check, bet, call.
he mucked AA with the A of clubs.