Early Play in Party 10$ Sngs

[sapster]

I've recently started playing the party sngs after being very successful in the stars 15$ turbos. I've been having some problems with pairs like jacks or 10's early on though. If you have JJ in early position and make the standard 3bb-4bb raise there are too many opponents and I am almost certainly in bad shape after the flop. I think I am losing with these hands and am wondering how the more experienced players play in these situations.

[ddubois]

I've seen this over and over. Someone raises their QQ/JJ/TT/99 preflop 3-7xBB, there's 1-2 callers, the flops comes up K high, and the PFR person will procede to lose their whole stack (usually to some idiot who 'should' not have called, like KJ or K9s). That always strikes me as the worst possible way to play. It seems to me, if you are can't control yourself from making FTOP mistakes post-flop, don't take the traditional 3xBB line in the first place. Either 1) limp and play for a set or overpair, or 2) limp with the intention of limp-reraising all-in if someone raises pre-flop, or 3) push pre-flop. I don't know which tactic is best, nor do I know what criteria (stack sizes, players tendencies involved, etc) might make you want to take one line over another, but I do know I always want to orchestrate the situation such that I am getting my money in when I am ahead. Pumping a pot such that you can't get away from it post-flop tends to break that ideal. Am I giving bad advice?

[fnurt]

If you are getting too many callers, raise bigger, simple as that.

There always seems to be some clown who will call your AK all-in with 44 figuring he is the favorite. Punish this guy by playing JJ the same way, you can make a massive overbet before the flop and he will still call.

[Jason Strasser]

Hrmm.

I don't really like this advice. I think that massive overbetting with JJ before the flop is a bad place to be. I guess at the $10 level you can get away from it, but it's not a good practice.

Biggest bets preflop are mid pockets, thats common knowledge. I don't like telegraphing my hand, and I like making the standard 3-4x BB raise early in the SNG with jacks or tens. Do this, and be prepared to play accordingly. If you get a lot of callers and one over card usually toss the hand. If you get a set, make them pay. If you flop an overpair, play it fast.

I dont think you want to get anywhere close to pot committing yourself with JJ or TT. They are very vulnerable hands. Just be prepared to toss them on many flops, unless you are heads up or three-way, when you think a bet can take down the pot.

Don't make a huge bet.

Edit: Often I limp behid people with TT early. JJ I prefer to raise.

[patrick dicaprio]

many times I will limp with these hands especially if there are callers in front of me. just because the book says to raise with these hands doesnt mean that you have to. of course there are situations where I will raise with them but if you cant get anyone to fold or are often in multiway pots a raise will do you little good and can do you a lot of bad.

Pat

[fnurt]

I think there is a big difference between the $10 games and the $200 games in this respect.

[BradleyT]

I can re-raise someone to T125 on the first hand of a $10 SnG (start with 800) and it's common to get 5 people to see the flop on the very first hand.

[Jason Strasser]

Ok

Joo right, I wrong. I have no idea how the $10s play these days.

[poboys]

$10 SnGs players are insane in the first few rounds. I too have seen many, many players lose JJ vs K-x when a K flops. You cannot trust most $10 SnG players early because they don't think of raises in terms of BB bets. A 3x BB raise is T45, so if you make it T60 anyone who has limped will call,
and too many players will throw in T60 to see a flop.

During levels 1 and 2, I usually limp UTG-CO with the intention of reraising if raised to isolate, or to hit a set on the flop. In late position I will raise it up 3-5 times to isolate, but will play very carefully if an overcard hits.

All-in PF screams mid-PP and in general you'll either win T25 (the blinds) or be up against a better hand.

[slogger]

I'm sure there is a ton of difference between the $10s and the $200s, but that difference is in your favor if you can play well postflop.

The fact that you will get 4 callers of a 4-5BB raise preflop is wonderful. You just have to know when to let it go and wait for a better spot when you get action on an unfavorable flop.

Assuming the first level of a Party $10+1, I take the following line (assuming I still have my starting 775-800):
[NOTE: this also assumes that I have position on most or all of my opponents.]

Preflop: If first in, raise to 45 (3xBB). If one or two limpers, raise to 55. If more limpers, raise to 65.

Flop: If 2 opponents or fewer, bet pot (110-175) on almost any flop, including when flopping an overpair; if flop a set, check for draws and proceed appropriately. If 3+ opponents, bet out strongly with an overpair, unless the flop is very draw heavy. Proceed with extreme caution against any callers (don't be afraid to get away from the hand with a 150-200 chip loss if you feel you're behind - being shortstacked is far from a death sentence in the 10+1s).

It's important to remember that these are just general guidelines I use and that you must be able to adjust to your opponents and the action on the flop.

[poboys]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: If 2 opponents or fewer, bet pot (110-175) on almost any flop, including when flopping an overpair;


[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming you get called in this example (as did the poster with a K on the flop) how would you play the turn/river? I think turn/river play is where I need to improve the most, so I am curious as to how you'd play this one.