Bubble hand for review

[vetman81]

This hand led to my demise in the latest SNG I played in. Any advice/comments are appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed)

MP (t1510)
Button (t970)
SB (t420)
BB (t2790)
Hero (t2310)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to t400, MP folds, Button raises to t970 (All-In), SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls t570.

Flop: (t2240) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t2240) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2240) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2240


Button has 88 and I double him up. After posting blinds the following two hands, I am suddenly a short stack. I go on to finish 4th. Would anyone play this hand differently? Thanks for your comments.

[Jason Strasser]

Your previous post is making more sense to me now.

IMO you played this hand poorly.

Min raising has no purpose. You are pricing in the blinds to see the flop, and you are committing too much of your stack to fold to any raise really. You have close enough to 10x the blinds, this is all-in or fold time for me. I guess one could argue that you could raise to 600, but I think when you are anywhere near 10x the BB you push.

Folding is also a mistake here.

[vetman81]

Even though I only have 10x BB, I am the second largest stack at the table. Should I be going all in on any hand I decide to raise?

[Jason Strasser]

Yes.

It does not matter what size stack u are in relation to others. If you have 10x the BB, or in that area, its all in or fold.

Chip leader, or last.

[SumZero]

Or, IMHO, if betting the pot is greater than 50% of your chips, you need to go all in or fold. *AND* if betting the pot is greater than 50% of the person who would be calling's chips, you also need to go all in or fold.

[aslowjoe]

So Jason I have been reading all your post lately regarding bubble play and stealing blinds and they are very enlighting. My itm% is decent but roi isn't what it should be so these posts are of definite interest too me.
This is a play I definetly don't understand. With a raise of 3xbb I stand a good chance of stealing the blinds. With an all in bet I am risking my whole tournament with a mediocre hand. If I get called I am most definetly a underdog and in at least in the $20 sng's players will call with almost any pair. So why risk my tournament with a coin flip or worse.
Actually in this spot I would be tempted to muck sitting UTG. Is this too weak?

[ddubois]

I understand your dilema; I too am uncomfortable pushing as often as is recommended on this forum. When pushing with Ax, it seems unlikely that you will be called except when you are beat (However, that's not be the case here - A9s is good 5-handed, and short stacks will call with worse aces), and it seems unlikely that 88 would fold to any bet of any size given his stack size. So I too am dubious.

But two things I do know:
1) Don't min-raise. Bet at least 2.5xBB so it doesn't scream "I am stealing, push me off!"
2) If you can't fold to the raise, you may as well push. Ok, that general advice/rule might not apply here, because the raise came from the small stack, and it costs you so little more to call. So, I have to ask, would you have folded to a push from the big stack? If so, then maybe a 2.5-3xBB raise is justifiable.

[Jason Strasser]

This hand, the hero has slightly more than 10x BB. There can be a decent argument to raise to 600, and fold to a raise by the other big stack. However, I'd push here. You are really only going to get called by AQ-AK (Maybe AJ), AA-88 (?). I'm sure this range varies, but the facts are that increasing your stack by around 15% is worth this risk. Sitting back and waiting for the blinds to eat you up is a bad strategy. Folding is weak.

So raise to 600, or raise all-in. If you had 1900 chips instead of 2300, this is a clear cut all-in... Unless you have a very, very strange table.

[NotReady]

About 2 months ago I posted the following:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed)

Hero (t800)
CO (t1380)
Button (t655)
SB (t1735)
BB (t660)
UTG (t975)
MP1 (t1795)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7, 7.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t800 (All-In), CO folds, Button folds, SB calls t750, BB calls t560 (All-In).

Flop: (t2260) 5, 2, A (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t2260) Q (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t2260) 3 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t2260

Results: <font color="white">SB had 99, BB had JJ. </font>

I had 5 responses, all of which recommended folding. The only real differences I can see between that hand and this one is the number of players remaining,but with the first 2 folding, it's the same basic situation. Also 77 is a better push hand than A9s, at least I assume so.

Since then, my ROI has dropped from 40% to 22% in 10+1's but I can't really say it was from bad advice. I'm still uncertain about these type hands in this kind of situation. Any advice?

[Jason Strasser]

Wow,

I do the same thing you do. With the blinds 150 total, and my stack 800, with 77 and 5 people to act, I think I push every time. This isn't even close in my book. Two overpairs is a shame, but a lot of the time you increase your stack nearly 20%. Its well worth the risk, considering sometimes when you are called you will even be a slight favorite.

Point me to that thread!

[NotReady]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=singletable&amp;Number=667 020&amp;Forum=,All_Forums,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Limit=2 5&amp;Main=667020&amp;Search=true&amp;where=bodysub&amp;Name=2878&amp; daterange=1&amp;newerval=3&amp;newertype=m&amp;olderval=&amp;older type=&amp;bodyprev=#Post667020

This was one of 5. I wouldn't mind your input at all on all 5. Just in the past couple of weeks, after reviewing Frozen's tourneys, and then watching him and you on Party now and then, I'm beginning to suspect I have some structual flaws in my SnG approach. I think a dim light is beginning to go on the the back reaches of my mind, any jump start you can give much appreciated.