Preflop Decisions

[SteveY]

I think I still have a few kinks preflop that I should work out. So I present to you some situations where I wasn't sure what to do:

1) PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed)

UTG is a loose passive player

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero...


2) PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed)

UTG is TAG relative to the LL players and his PF raising requirements seem on par with 2+2ers, MP1 is loose passive.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero...

3) You have JTs in the CO, UTG raises and there are 4 callers to you. Call or fold?

Also, I know there are a few PF quizzes out there, so does anyone have links to them?

[Brian]

Hi Steve,

1) Fold. Passive player raises UTG = bad times for KJs.

2) Fold. Again, 3-bet from a passive player = bad times for AQs.

3) Fold. Even with good position and many players already in, it's still too hard for JTs to overcome an overpair. I used to call in these situations, or even 3-bet, but I believe either Clark or Dynasty said that they'd fold in this situation, so I've been folding as well. If I'm misquoting, someone let me know please.

-Brian

[sublime]

Hand one:
Fold

Hand two:
Fold

Hand three:
Fold

[sublime]

3) Fold. Even with good position and many players already in, it's still too hard for JTs to overcome an overpair. I used to call in these situations, or even 3-bet, but I believe either Clark or Dynasty said that they'd fold in this situation, so I've been folding as well. If I'm misquoting, someone let me know please.

Brian-
To me this was the only decision of the three that required some thought. If I were in the blinds I would probably call here, but with no discount I am with you and fold.

[SnakeRat]

Maybe I am too loose but I would see a flop with all of these.

Reason being these hands play well multiway.

That said, if you trust these reads enough to limit them to AA KK QQ JJ AK, then folding is correct.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I still have a few kinks preflop that I should work out.

[/ QUOTE ]
2c/4c hold em is a good place to do this.

[ QUOTE ]

1) PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed)

UTG is a loose passive player

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero...


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't mind cold calling here at typical 2c/4c table. When cold calling 2 bets be very conscious of it... i.e. don't make a habit of it. Sometimes it's okay though -- like when you are against a lot of players cold calling with crap. I think this is one of those times.

[ QUOTE ]

2) PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed)

UTG is TAG relative to the LL players and his PF raising requirements seem on par with 2+2ers, MP1 is loose passive.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero...


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean Hero is CO? I will assume you do. I think you cold call (again, being concious of what you are doing) just to see what UTG will do. You could make an argument for capping. Either way I don't think you should fold.

[ QUOTE ]

3) You have JTs in the CO, UTG raises and there are 4 callers to you. Call or fold?


[/ QUOTE ]
Call. Maybe raise, depending on the table. This is pretty powerful hand multiway.

EDIT:
I just now read the other posts... and maybe realizing my own preflop play needs work. Hmmm.

I'm thinking that perhaps at this level, so many of the other players are bad enough they can be beaten post flop. Yes you are behind to the raiser possibly, but given your requirements are better than most of the other players then perhaps both the Hero and the raiser are being paid off by the other callers.

That is my logic. If it's off then I probably have a leak in my game. Feel free to correct me.

[Brian]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking that perhaps at this level, so many of the other players are bad enough they can be beaten post flop. Yes you are behind to the raiser possibly, but given your requirements are better than most of the other players then perhaps both the Hero and the raiser are being paid off by the other callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Relying on post-Flop skill to make up for major pre-Flop shortcomings is something I don't think anything but maybe 10 posters on these forums should be doing, including myself. You're taking hands which will frequently make a 2nd best pay-off hand, especially hands #1 and #2, and relying on your post-Flop skill to somehow make up for what you've lost pre-Flop. Not a very good idea. Even the best players in the world will often have to pay off with these hands simply because of how large the pot has gotten. You're inviting disaster by consistently playing KJs to an UTG raise, and AQs to a 3-bet.

-Brian