A-10s on the button against big blind raise...

[hawaii]

its folded to me and im on the button with A-10 of spades and raise it. small blind folds and big bling re raises me. the big blind is a loose player that will limp with anything but raises big pairs and big aces.
i call and the flop comes A A 4 rainbow.
the big bling checks and since i know he only raises big aces or big pairs i check hoping to check raise on the turn because he would bet that flop if he had an A.
the turn is a J and the big blind checks, i raise and big blind immediatly check raises. i think to myself he either has AJ or JJ because he raised preflop but i put him on JJ because he checked the flop.
i folded A-10 here. good or bad???

[SnakeRat]

Bad, whatever you do, see a showdown.

[sthief09]

first off, it goes Bet, Raise, Reraise, and you can't check-raise in last position. Did you mean that checking the flop and betting the turn was a check-raise? I'm confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif I don't mean to be picky, but using the wrong terminology makes the situation tough to describe.

given his play, I'd say it's extremely likely that he has you beat on the turn. however, you have to realize that you raised from a steal position. he's much more likely to play back at you. when you check the turn, you've misrepresented your hand, so when you get raised on the turn, it's unlikely he's putting you on an A. In this situation I would've just bet the flop. there's only 1 A left in the deck. I'd bet the flop, and if he check-raises I'd call down. if he calls the flop and check-raises the turn, I'd still call down.

You'd have to be correct with your read to fold here. There's 3 BB in the pot on the turn, and when it's up to you, you're getting 7-2 effective odds. I'm not so sure you can put him on the case ace with 78% certainty.

but remember, if you're going to misrepresent your hand as weak, then you shouldn't fold when your opponent shows aggression, because he could just think you don't have anything good (in this case, he could've check-raised with KK since he "knew" you didn't have an A).

[hawaii]

but why if the only things he would raise preflop is AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ JJ. out of all the hands he would raise with, i only beat 2 of them. about 70% of the time he will have me beat. when should i call or fold???

[HajiShirazu]

First of all he can't even have AA, at least I hope not, check the deck if he does. With one of the aces in your hand and two on the board he is about equally likely to have KK/QQ as a big ace.
From the way this hand played out I think JJ is likely, but you should probably still call down-remember that you also have 7 outs even if that is what he has.

[hawaii]

[ QUOTE ]
first off, it goes Bet, Raise, Reraise, and you can't check-raise in last position. Did you mean that checking the flop and betting the turn was a check-raise? I'm confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif I don't mean to be picky, but using the wrong terminology makes the situation tough to describe.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea sorry...i meant i would check the flop and raise on the turn but yes...wrong terminology LOL /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Avatar]

thats a terrible laydown. Get to a showdown.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
but why if the only things he would raise preflop is AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ JJ. out of all the hands he would raise with, i only beat 2 of them. about 70% of the time he will have me beat. when should i call or fold???

[/ QUOTE ]


you raised from a steal position. a lot of players go to great lengths to prevent people from stealing their blinds.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
but why if the only things he would raise preflop is AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ JJ. out of all the hands he would raise with, i only beat 2 of them. about 70% of the time he will have me beat. when should i call or fold???



[/ QUOTE ]

You know what? If you are this sure about what this guy has here then you made a mistake betting the turn, just check it through and call on the river.

I question your read though, because I agree with Sthief's comments about the BB's hand range being larger than the one you have stated.

[hawaii]

the people i play with are loose but when they have it they raise. the person i was in the pot with wont reraise unless he has the nuts or close to it and they have no clue about protecting blinds/position and many other things. maybe i did make a bad laydown but i am pretty sure i was up against JJ and that would have left me with 7 outs

[MarkD]

You have correct pot odds to call if you believe you have 7 outs. So even if we go with your JJ read then folding is wrong getting 6-1 on the call.

I think buddy has Ax here more often than JJ (where x is 2-K).

[SnakeRat]

[ QUOTE ]
but why if the only things he would raise preflop is AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ JJ. out of all the hands he would raise with, i only beat 2 of them. about 70% of the time he will have me beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you know he only 3-bets those hands you should fold preflop when he 3-bets you.

[sthief09]

false

if you have that much control over a player that you know what he has, then folding is bad.

[SnakeRat]

You only know you are dominated and in bad shape vs all those hands, I dont see how knowing you are dominated makes it bad to fold.

You are getting 5-1 on a hand you know to be dominated.

He didnt say he "controlled" him he said he knew what he held.

[sthief09]

knowing what a player has and knowing how he plays is having control. he lost 1 BB, sure he was beat, after flopping trip aces. that sounds like control to me.