Does this happen to everyone? I hope so. [Archive]

View Full Version : Does this happen to everyone? I hope so.

AdamL

07-11-2004, 06:04 PM

For the past two days (which amounts to a lot of playing) I've been getting a very large amount of unplayable trash hands up front. I've also been missing every flop I get to see completely.

I've lost almost $100 now playing at $50 NL tables just in blinds and preflop calls where I miss the flop. It seems pretty disheartening, because while I'm trying to tell myself it's just variance it is still a lot of cash to go through without winning anything.

How long can these streaks last? (Boy, I hope I get a streak on the other side of the equation soon! :-) ) Anybody else ever had this sort of thing?

I figure I have three possible responses:

1) Start bluffing aggressively a lot more and try and bluff my money back. (I am already bluffing the standard amount -- betting after raising p/f with something like QQ when an A flops, etc. But here I'm talking about going all-in etc. VERY aggressive bluffing.)

I don't think this is a great idea. It seems more emotionally forced than rational and it could just make me lose a lot more during the slump than I have to. But maybe this works for some people?

2) Stop playing for a while... but then I think when I come back I'll be timid and discouraged. I don't want to run from the problem.

3) Keep hacking away, and just grit my teeth and watch the money ooze off my roll until things turn around. But it seems like it's taking forever. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

FWIW, my starting hand selection is not loose. I generally only play suited connectors from the last two positions and I don't think AKo is anything to get really excited about. I also don't think top pair top kicker is a hand that can stand a substantial raise.

thetman

07-11-2004, 06:28 PM

Patience and it'll come back to you.

fireman664

07-11-2004, 06:31 PM

I think we have all been there, and I think we have all felt how you feel. I once went 164 hands without winning 1 pot during my real cold streak. It happens, and it is actually good to go through it (just not often I hope) so you know how the swings feel and how to react to them (or NOT how to react and develop leaks). Good luck, take a day or two off (or a week).

LA_Price

07-11-2004, 06:58 PM

Use pokertracker. Post some of the hands where you've lost money (or have gotten your money in with the worst of it). Losing streaks are an excellent time to find leaks in your game.

AdamL

07-11-2004, 07:16 PM

Great idea!

Here are a few examples of hands where I lost more than the blind or preflop call. I'll post some more following.

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

Button ($80.25)
SB ($65.50)
Hero ($50.00)
UTG ($8.25)
UTG+1 ($67.00)
MP1 ($75.75)
MP2 ($76.25)
MP3 ($17.00)
CO ($90.00)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, CO folds, Button folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($3.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($3.50) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $2.5, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $6, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $3.50.

River: ($15.50) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $10, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $25.50
Main Pot: $15.50, won by UTG+1.
Pot 2: $10, returned to UTG+1.

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $25.50. 

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed)

SB ($67.00)
BB ($114.00)
Hero ($49.50)
UTG+1 ($19.50)
MP1 ($92.50)
MP2 ($76.25)
CO ($61.00)
Button ($116.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls $2, SB (poster) calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $8, Button calls $8, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($24) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $7.5, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $31.50
Main Pot: $24, won by Button.
Pot 2: $7.50, returned to Button.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Button wins $31.50. 

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed)

MP1 ($65.50)
MP2 ($38.25)
MP3 ($12.25)
CO ($21.25)
Button ($27.75)
SB ($60.25)
BB ($62.75)
UTG ($68.75)
UTG+1 ($24.00)
Hero ($48.00)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $2, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB (poster) calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($12) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets $3.5, MP2 calls $3.50, SB raises to $7, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero folds, MP1 calls $3.50, MP2 calls $3.50.

Turn: ($33) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB bets $30, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $63
Main Pot: $33, won by SB.
Pot 2: $30, returned to SB.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. SB wins $63.

AdamL

07-11-2004, 07:24 PM

Now, those were some hands where I had a little something.

One more example of "a little something" and then on to the complete misses. I just am guessing there is more room for critique of my "little somethings" than my "nothing" hands.

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed)

UTG+1 ($46.50)
MP1 ($53.75)
MP2 ($48.25)
CO ($14.00)
Button ($64.75)
SB ($53.00)
BB ($40.00)
Hero ($48.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2, Hero folds, Button folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: $4
Main Pot: $2, won by BB.
Pot 2: $2, returned to BB.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. BB wins $4. 

Ok, now the "Nothing" hands. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

CO ($54.25)
Hero ($101.00)
SB ($67.25)
BB ($44.75)
UTG ($35.00)
UTG+1 ($47.50)
MP1 ($57.25)
MP2 ($23.50)
MP3 ($56.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB (poster) folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.75) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $1, MP3 calls $1, CO folds, Hero folds, BB calls $1.

Turn: ($5.75) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $1.5, MP3 calls $1.50, BB calls $1.50.

River: ($10.25) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: $10.25
Main Pot: $10.25, between BB, UTG and MP3. > Pot won by BB ($10.25).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Td Kc (full house, kings full of tens).
UTG shows 7d 6d (one pair, kings).
MP3 shows Qh Th (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: BB wins $10.25. 

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

MP1 ($10.00)
MP2 ($30.24)
Hero ($24.30)
CO ($16.20)
Button ($23.45)
SB ($60.25)
BB ($19.12)
UTG ($14.11)
UTG+1 ($15.13)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.25. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button folds, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($1.50) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($1.50) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.5, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero folds, CO raises to $1, SB folds, BB calls $0.50.

Final Pot: $3.50
Main Pot: $3.50, between CO and BB. > Pot won by CO ($3.50).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 3h 7c (two pair, queens and threes).
CO shows Qs Ac (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: CO wins $3.50. 

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

CO ($80.25)
Button ($65.00)
Hero ($43.50)
BB ($7.75)
UTG ($75.25)
UTG+1 ($75.25)
MP1 ($75.75)
MP2 ($16.50)
MP3 ($90.00)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets $1.5, CO calls $1.50, Button calls $1.50, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($7.50) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP3 bets $2.5, CO calls $2.50, Button folds.

River: ($12.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP3 bets $15, CO calls $15.

Final Pot: $42.50
Main Pot: $42.50, between CO and MP3. > Pot won by MP3 ($42.50).

Results in white below: 
MP3 shows Qh Ks (straight, ace high).
CO shows Jc 9s (two pair, jacks and nines).
Outcome: MP3 wins $42.50. 

And one winner to end the post... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

Button ($54.25)
Hero ($98.25)
BB ($69.25)
UTG ($44.75)
UTG+1 ($35.00)
MP1 ($47.50)
MP2 ($58.00)
MP3 ($23.50)
CO ($56.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.25. MP2 posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.75) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, BB calls $1.50.

Turn: ($4.75) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, BB folds.

Final Pot: $8.25
Main Pot: $4.75, won by Hero.
Pot 2: $3.50, returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $8.25.

Ghazban

07-11-2004, 07:29 PM

One benefit folding your junk all the time in a given session is that your raises will get a lot of respect when you do make them. If you've folded the past 25 hands and its folded to you in the CO, just raise to steal the blinds. Granted, this is online low-stakes holdem, but even at a low level, people will notice that you've not been playing much and will give you credit for something when you raise. Stealing the blinds isn't just for tourneys-- sometimes its the only way to make anything happen at all. Similarly, when you keep getting dealt great hands and are seeing every flop, your raises in that session will get a lot less respect when you make them so stealing becomes much harder to pull off.

Leo Bello

07-11-2004, 09:36 PM

Adam, two days... well get a break. Really it can help you.

Bluffing more... if you are on a bad streak, it can have very negative results and make you lose even more. Normally you have to do the opposite and tighten your play.

Everyone goes trough this from time to time. Actually it is how you come out from these runs that matter. Post on the psychology forum as well.

RollaJ

07-12-2004, 01:02 PM

Dude $100 at the $50 max game is NOTHING. Just deal with it, the hands you posted are so average and mundane, it will happen to you as long as you keep playing poker.

Suggestions:
Buy in for $22 when you sit down (thats how I first started playing NL at paradise 2 years ago)

Drop down to the 10 or $25 tables and learn the game...... the c/r on the hand you caught a T on was just silly

open an account at party, the games are MUCH easier

tree_stump

07-12-2004, 01:20 PM

Two days is no big deal... I went through a 6 day stretch last week where in 1200 hands I won 6 (for a total of maybe $50). But then again, when I finally snapped out of it I earned back all the money I had lost with interest in one day, so it's no big deal. My suggestion would be to tighten up and start re-reading your books - in all likelyhood you're tilting a little without realizing it and are pushing too hard with marginal hands. Reading the books will help center you and remind you to quit throwing fancy plays at players who don't understand them... I almost never C/R at NL25 or NL50 tables, unless there's a maniac i can use - the players just don't understand the play, so it doesn't help you much. But yeah, it does suck to call the blind and end up tossing a good hand to a made flush, doesn't it?

ClimbRock512

07-12-2004, 01:59 PM

Some poker theoretician ran a simulation with a good player(someone that should beat the table longterm) playing 10,000 hands. He ran the simulation many times, and in fact found several cases where the good player was down after 10,000 hands. This doesn't happen every day, but it is very possible to have a losing week, month, or more(depending on how much you play). That said, don't accept it as the cause of you losing. If you are losing consistantly,(over a few thousand hands) check your game for leaks. Take time off, re-read your books. Think. Do not be stupid and try to regain your money by making drastic changes just because you are down. If you think you are bluffing too little in general, they work on that, don't just try to bluff like crazy to make up for lost money; you are sure to lose everything. Some of the best players I know have had losing months, if you read books by professionals, many will speak of their losing streaks. I think Brunson talks about losing streaks in Super System(I haven't read it in a while). Two days is nothing to be concerned about. And losing $100 at NL50 is nothing. If you lost $800 at NL50, then I'd say you should seriously consider checking your play. I've lost $150 at NL25 in like a few hours. I hardly think $100 at NL50 is anything to consider trouble.

I believe that a bankroll requirement for max-buy in NL online games is in excess of 15 buy ins. Most suggest 20 to be safe. I wouldn't even think about playing without 8-10. That is all figured out mathematically so I don't think they'd suggest 20 if losing 2 was uncommon.

Good luck with pulling out of it. Just remember, all you can do it put in the time, the rest will even itself out.

AdamL

07-12-2004, 02:39 PM

Thanks everyone for the advice.

"the c/r on the hand you caught a T on was just silly"

Can you explain the reasoning behind that? I thought it was a good move because the bettor could be taking a stab at the pot or only be holding a seven or below-10 pocket pair. The C/R is meant to represent the two. When the seven comes and he bets a substantial amount on the river I know he either doesn't believe me or is confident he can beat me. If he had the seven on the flop/turn, now he has me beat anyhow. If he had the two, he had me beat all along.

I feel if I didn't play the way I did, I wouldn't have made the right decisions. If I had lead out and bet on each round, a call on his part would give me very little information. If I had folded, I might have been folding to a bluff or a seven, both of which I can beat.

Suggestions?

Adam