Two questions, 99 and AJs UTG

[vetman81]

Q1. Assume a full ring game with either of these hands UTG. How do you play these hands preflop?

Q2. Assume a full table NLHE SNG. How do you play these hands then?

The reason I ask is that both hands have come up for me in both situations. In both, I chose just to limp in...my raise in the ring game (1-2 on PP) would do little to clear the field, so unless I hit on the flop, I just wasted a bet. In the SNG I probably should be more aggressive, but with the hands people call with, I have become a little gun shy unless I have a big hand. Thanks for the input.

[DMBFan23]

99... raise
AJs... raise about 2/3, limp sometimes if I know there are aggressive players left behind me to act. in most 1/2 games though, this is a definite raise

NLHE: I have no advice, I suck at NLHE. I would still raise both though, those hands are pretty good.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
AJs... raise about 2/3, limp sometimes if I know there are aggressive players left behind me to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would the fact that the table is aggro make you less inclined to raise this hand?

[BaronVonCP]

Definately depends on the table, but in most low limit games where you will get coldcalled with all kinds of trash, raising both is necessary.

[ScottTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
my raise in the ring game (1-2 on PP) would do little to clear the field, so unless I hit on the flop, I just wasted a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is weak thinking, IMO. When the flop DOES hit you you gained 4 or more bets from the looosies cold calling with their crappy hands. A raise with AKs wont thin the field and will often miss the flop. Do you limp with that as well?

Raise AJs UTG and HOPE a bunch of them call. The more the better. It's not a tragedy to raise PF and have to fold on the flop.

[Tosh]

Raise both and watch people call with far worse hands.

[vetman81]

I completely see what you are saying, but what about smaller pairs, say 22. The same can be said for them, that if you hit on the flop, you will gain those extra bets if you raised PF. However, would you raise UTG preflop with 22? If not, whats the difference between that and 99? Neither are likely to hold up on their own against 4 or 5 callers.

Thanks for your response.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Vetman,

In limit ring games, you should be raising AJs and 99 UTG almost always.

In NL SnG's, early on both these should be very easy mucks in EP.

GoT

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Neither are likely to hold up on their own against 4 or 5 callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

they dont have to be 'likely' to hold up.
if your hand holds up 25% of the time against a field of 4 or 5 callers then it was well worth the raise.


anyway, against 4 or 5 players it's hard to be better than a 50% favorite pre-flop but by saying 'its not likely to win' this seems to be what you are implying.

it can be fairly unlikely to hold up yet still be a profitable hand.by your logic it would be hard to raise with ANY hand...
'if it doesn't hold up then i lost more then i needed to'.

if they are only going to cold-call you and ride along for the flop then that is actually BETTER for you....they have hands that they should either be re-raising with or folding...but probably don't have hands that they are best CC-ing with (not all of them anyway).






you have a decent enough chance of having the best hand pre-flop thus you raise and hopefully your post-flop skills can keep you out of getting into too much trouble.

[FletchJr.]

If your mucking 99 in ep in a typical No limit game I think your making a huge error.
IMO in the early stages the hand should be played for set purposes only and as the blinds increase in relationship to the average stack your aggression level should increase.
I think 99 is at it's weakest when the stacks are close to 20 sb's. example when your in level 3 or 4 in a PP SnG.

[ScottTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I completely see what you are saying, but what about smaller pairs, say 22. The same can be said for them, that if you hit on the flop, you will gain those extra bets if you raised PF. However, would you raise UTG preflop with 22? If not, whats the difference between that and 99? Neither are likely to hold up on their own against 4 or 5 callers.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's true about 22, the problem is, it is far less likely to win vs. several players than 99 or AJs. 99 will hold up unimproved more than you think, and you increase the chances if you play it strongly.

Keep in mind: AA is also unlikely to hold up vs. 6 or 7 callers. But it holds up often enough that raising it preflop vs. any number of callers shows a profit in the long run.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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AJs... raise about 2/3, limp sometimes if I know there are aggressive players left behind me to act.


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Why would the fact that the table is aggro make you less inclined to raise this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

granted, AJs is pretty good with few opponents, but it also has some pretty nasty draws, and I'd hate to have it come back 2 cold to me out of position in a 3 way pot...I sometimes like to limp to bring some more people along for the ride. I do raise this a lot, just not everytime...comments on this welcome.

[Jason Strasser]

GoT,

I know diddly-squat compared to you in limit ring games, but in a NL sng you are giving up way too much in terms of implied odds by folding AJs or 99 UTG. Very often the first 2 rounds of a sng are very passive. If you have maniacs acting behind you going all-in with bad hands, etc, then fine, you can fold. Against the typical competition at the $200 SNG level on party, you are giving up far too much folding. The one thing you may have to adjust to is that many players will limp behind with AQo, which is sometimes tricky.

All-in-all, good players don't fold 99 or AJs UTG in a NL sng (first 2 rounds).

[t_petrosian]

You muck 99 in a nl tournament??

[t_petrosian]

Against 5 other random hands, 99 should win about 25% of the time. Against 5 reasonable hands (hands that people play), middle suited connectors, any ace, KJ, etc..., you are less than 20%

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Jason,

Well, it looks like I'm wrong on the SnG UTG. I concede that I am by no means an expert in NL one table tourneys, so I defer to you guys. Thanks for the correction! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

GoT

[Tosh]

I give you 5 O's on your own GoT Boo Scale.