Pocket 10's UTG...did I push this too hard?

[luv2chkraze]

NL afternoon tourney at Hollywood Park. It's after the break, so the rebuy period is over. I have T4200, which is a little bit above an average size stack at this point.

I am UTG and am dealt 10-10. Antes are T25, blinds 100-200. I raise to T600. I am called by a player in MP and by the BB.

Flop comes Q-8-3 rainbow. BB checks. I push all in. My reasoning is that I had been showing down some really good hands, and my raises were being respected to a certain extent. Obviously I was hoping no one would call, because I figure only to get called if I'm beaten. Sure enough, MP player folds, but after a long think the BB calls me and turns over pocket jacks, although he was seriously considering folding.

My play on the flop is debatable, but I'm more interested in my play preflop. What to do with pocket 10's in this situation?? Is a raise to 600 too aggressive from UTG? Maybe limp-fold to a raise? Push all in and hope to take it down right there?

Looking forward to your responses...I think there will be lots of debate with this one, as it's a delicate situation and there are probably many ways to play it.

[SossMan]

Preflop:
I would never push there...you have 21x. You don't want to risk that to win about 2x.
I think my preflop play is dictated by the table texture. If it has been a loose passive table, I would limp in hopes of flopping a set in a multiway pot. If it gets raised behind, I would call up to 5x if there was only one raiser and at least one caller (and they had stacks roughly my size or bigger).
If the table has been tight and aggressive, I would go ahead and make the 3x raise, like you did.
I can't really imagine a table texture that I would fold TT in this spot.

Flop:
I really don't like the all in bet here. You have T3600 and the pot is about T2000. I would have underbet the pot..something like T1000-T1200 and folded to an all in reraise. A queen is very likely here since so many calling hands involve a queen. You would have expected a reraise preflop from an AK, so there are lots of Q hands that would flat call a 3x raise here preflop. You also have the minor worry about 88 or 33.
The play is very aggressive, and works well if you have a very tight image, but I don't think you are going to get a better hand to fold here, and you certainly wont get a worse hand to call, IMO.
My plan for the rest of the hand if I get one call of my T1000-T1200 flop bet would be to check behind on the turn, and probably call a river bet if no more overs come (though I may bluff at an A or K, trying to get QJ/QT to fold).
I'm playing this one causiously, and I still have over 10x if I have to lay down.

[bonanz]

Wow I was gonna post a hand almost identical to this but i played it differently after the flop. 100 people tourney down to about 40 in the money.
I'm in MP1 with 10-10 blinds happen to be 100-200 also i have about T5200 and am my table leader. I make it 600 to go, immediately to my left a decent player calls fairly quickly (T3000 for this player) folds all the way around.

flop is
J73 2 hearts

i bet 600, she calls quickly

turn 7

i check, she bets 500, i take a minute to think, almost folded, but called. I just cant see her calling my raise with a hand that has a jack for some reason, but i think the amount of time it took for me to think made it look like i was heart drawing.

River rag heart

i bet 600, she things for a minute, shifts around uncomfortably and cals with QJo

should i have check folded on the turn? I felt uneasy about my play on this hand. and if i was gonna take a stab on the end representing hearts i should have bet more maybe? but i feel like she was the type of player that can recognize a value bet.Sorry i do not mean to thread hijack, but the hands where almost identical going into the flop. and postflop varied but its interesting TT talk with 2 different approaches post flop.

regards
bonanz

ps. sorry again if this is hijacking....

[SossMan]

Preflop: I like

Flop: I like

Turn: Why do you check here? If you check, I would check/fold or check/raise all in..I think check calling is the worst of all the options.

River: Do you really think she's going to fold a hand that beats yours for a measly T500? It's hard to put you on a heart draw since you raised preflop. I don't like the river bet at all. By my calculations, she has T1300 left on the river. Go ahead and set her in if you want to put her to the test. Otherwise, check fold since she either already had you or just caught up.
Either way, I wouldn't be in this spot since I would either have checkfolded or checkraised the turn all in.

[bonanz]

yeah i know the turn is where i blew it. i really was leaning to folding, but i thought wtf, she can't have a jack or an overpair, so i thought my tens where good. but you're right even if they are good c/r all in. another hand played like a beyotch to cripple your stack and start your decent out of the tourney. thanks for the input.

bonanz

[SossMan]

no prob

[GimmeDaWatch]

As a reply to the original post, obviously the raise preflop is fine, but I dont like the flop push at all. If you are going to try and fold the other two hands fine, but you are overbetting the pot by a significant amount, and I dont think this play will fold any hands that a bet of half the pot to 2/3 the pot wouldnt fold. If anything, when I see someone make a push like this, it smells like fear to me. Almost noone would play a set or overpair like this, and very few people would play AQ or KQ in this fashion unless their table is crazy loose and they're just looking to double up. When you get called on this flop with a modest bet, you know you are probably beat, and you can check/fold the turn, or bet out again if you think the BB is weak. This is also pertinent b/c a reasonable bet on the flop and again on the turn looks much stronger than overbetting the pot all-in on the flop, and very well may have folded the BB's JJ. Just my 1+1 sense.