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Clarkmeister
07-10-2004, 06:45 PM
I was arguing with my Uncle over the 4th of July weekend about who was a better coach, Phil Jackson or Red Auerbach. He kept coming back to the "the talent is diluted" and "no easy wins" argument, which to me may be the worst argument ever.

First, it should be obvious that it is tougher to win 4 playoff series than to win 2. Second, to me it is clear that while the league has grown by over 2.5x since the Boster glory days, the talent pool (in all sports, not just basketball) has grown by much much more than 2.5x. Third, the salary cap has made it more difficult to achieve long term success. As an example, would the Bulls have won 12 straight titles with no Jordan retirement and unlimited cap room? Don't people think that players like Ewing, Malone, Stockton would have jumped at the chance to play in Chicago if there were no cap constraints?

But then I thought of this following thought while talking about it with a friend. Say we shrunk the NBA or any other league down to 8 teams today. We redrafted and these talent laden 8 teams had a regular season. While the 8th best team in this theoretical league *may* be better than most (all?) of the teams in the current league, that 8th best team would STILL be no match for whatever team was the best. I don't think the league would be more competitive at all. The gap between the best and worst teams in the smaller league may be smaller than the same gap in a larger league, but it is still large enough to mean that effectively, the worst team has no chance. In other words, even if we ignore the three points I mention in the above paragraph, more absolute talent/team does not necessarily mean more competition between the top team and other teams.

GWB
07-10-2004, 07:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the talent pool (in all sports, not just basketball) has grown by much much more than 2.5x.

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than the general population increase and the addition of new countries that may be mined for talent, what is your basis for this assertion?

Clarkmeister
07-10-2004, 07:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the talent pool (in all sports, not just basketball) has grown by much much more than 2.5x.

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than the general population increase and the addition of new countries that may be mined for talent, what is your basis for this assertion?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't know that I need any more. The US population has grown from 180mm in 1960 to approx 300mm today. And the available talent pool from overseas has grown from essentially zero to the point where they are approximately 17% of the league.

But it's more than just that anyways. 40 years ago, professional atheletes didn't sign contracts worth a quarter of a billion dollars. Becoming a pro athelete was not such an idealistic goal as many could make more money in the private sector. As an example, in 1966 the average NBA salary was $13,000 (adjusted for inflation, that's about $70,000 today. Compare that to today's average NBA salary of over $3,000,000). Now, anyone with an inch of talent does everything possible to see how far they can go in sports.

Basketball in particular was a minor league that few people cared about (average NBA attendance for the 1960's was a mere 5,000 per game). Now it is a major force that is the first choice for many of the top atheletes. I'd guess that of the major sports, the NBA has had it's available talent pool increase the most, followed by the NFL.

andyfox
07-10-2004, 08:12 PM
"40 years ago, professional atheletes didn't sign contracts worth a quarter of a billion dollars. Becoming a pro athelete was not such an idealistic goal as many could make more money in the private sector."

Indeed. Wilt Chamberlain first went to the Globetrotters as his league of choice rather than to the NBA. Not only did they offer him more money, but there was the problem of being a black athlete in the NBA.

Punker
07-10-2004, 10:28 PM
Not exactly; I believe at the time underclassmen could not enter the NBA until their university class graduated, and Wilt left Kansas a year early. Since he couldn't join the NBA immediately, he went to the Globetrotters for a year.

andyfox
07-11-2004, 02:40 AM
You're right, Wilt left after his junior year.

Drunk Bob
07-11-2004, 03:31 AM
I am proud to say "I contribute $o to this insanity".

Clarkmeister
07-12-2004, 03:09 AM
Eh. I still like going to MLB games and don't mind paying to do so.

Sooga
07-12-2004, 04:46 AM
I've been to NFL, NBA, and MLB games (no NHL, but mostly because I'm really not a fan), and I don't know, MLB games are infinitely better live than on TV. The NBA and NFL games I've seen are about as entertaining either way.