Pocket Aces lose once again.

[BlackMamba]

Hello. I was just eliminated from a TP $50+$5 MTT NL Holdem tournament. I was vetry early in the tourney and I was far from the money.Blinds are $7/$15. Like always,this is a loose, passive table with not a lot of pre-flop raising. I have $1420 in chips. Since TP HH's don't come with chip counts for everybody, I'll just assume that the average stack is about $1250. Most pre-flop raises get called by any ace,and hands like Q,10 and K,10 offsuit.

I'm dealt A /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in LP.4 people ahead of me call.In order to eliminate drawing hands that will probably outdraw me, I raise $130.I get 3 callers.This worries me as I don't like more than 2 callers with pocket aces or kings.

Flop comes J /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif.Im happy with this flop for 2 reasons.

1.I have the A /images/graemlins/club.gif, so if a another club comes I'll have the nut flush in hand.

2.I have the best overcards,so people with Q,Q AND K,K will need a lot of help.

A player in front of me bets $115.I immediately start thinking that he may have a hand like A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif and is drawing to the K high flush.A player in front of me calls and I call.

Turn comes the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif, giving me trips and the nut flush draw.I start to like this hand even more now,because I could catch a J,2,8, or A to make the best hand.The same player bets $115 again.The other player calls and I also call.

River comes a the 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif,a total blank.Both players check to me, your move?

Results to follow

[SossMan]

If people are really calling with all that crap, then I like the overbet preflop with the AA.

You should be thanking your lucky stars that not one, but three players call your preflop raise.

The flop is moderately good for you. I think a small flop raise is necessary here. Make it like T300 to go. They are loose, they will call.

If they continue to make small bets into you on the turn, go ahead and push. Especially now that you have between 15 and 19 outs on the river IF you are behind. This should be an easy push here.

Barring that, push on the river. Do you really think a flopped flush will check to you on the river when the 4th club doesn't get there and the board doesn't pair? You have the nut non-flush hand.
If he called you preflop with 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif, so be it.

[BlackMamba]

Results: I move in for $1060 and get called by both players. The initial raiser shows Q /images/graemlins/club.gif10 /images/graemlins/club.gif for the flopped flush and the other player shows 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif for the flopped set.

[scottjf8]

With AA and KK in tourneys, I push full preflop.. let someone with Qxs fold.. if they call, then bad luck, and they suck, but normally you'll just grab their limp bets and the blinds...

Now if you push and 88 calls you (which most won't, but some might) then you've beat him with that ace on the turn...

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
With AA and KK in tourneys, I push full preflop.. let someone with Qxs fold.. if they call, then bad luck, and they suck, but normally you'll just grab their limp bets and the blinds...


[/ QUOTE ]

So with the very best preflop hands you can get, you essentially assure yourself of winning a very small pot unless you happen to be up against morons. Maybe that will fly at the beginning pf a Party $20 tourament with 1100 entrants, but against opponents with a brainwave you are essentially forcing yourself to win the majority of your chips without the benefit of using the best two hands.

Don't misunderstand me, if I think I can get someone (or, dare I hope, multiple someones) all-in preflop while I hold AA/KK, I'll do it, but just pushing reguardless of stack sizes is costing you a lot of chips in the long run.

[tripdad]

i think your preflop raise was just a bit much, though not totally over the top.

as for the flop, you definitely need to raise it up to see where you may stand. you can't just call down bets and expect to have any idea where you are at. poker is a game where you need as much info as possible in order to play correctly.

if you raise the flop, you are likely going to then face 2 all-ins and you can safely fold and save a ton of chips here.

cheers!