How to handle low limit bad beats

Hi,


This is my first time posting here. I began learning hold 'em several months ago. I've read baby Sklansky, as well as some other books and essays. I'm definitely just beginning and I don't pretend to have any real skill or experience yet. I play several hours a week (10-20) at PartyPoker and I also play in a regular home game with friends once a week. I play both at $1/$2. I have only played a couple weeks at PartyPoker, and so far I am virtually dead even in earnings. In my home game, I have lost slightly, but not much.


My question concerns how someone just learning (or anyone?) becomes better at controlling their emotions after losing one or more large pots to apparently preposterous play. I know that everyone has bad beats and loses pots to players who didn't play 'correctly' or who didn't play the hand well, but at the LOWER limits this kind of thing can become so extreme and ridiculous that sometimes it's enough to tempt one into leaving poker altogether. Let me give you 2 examples:


A few nights ago, I was playing $1/$2, full table of 10 players. I was in middle position or so. I was dealt AA. I raised. It was reraised by someone, and I capped it. Several people (between 3-5) saw the flop. The flop was scattered low rags, I don't remember exactly, say 237 all offsuit. It was checked to me, and I bet. Someone raised, and everyone called. (Maybe one person folded.) I knew someone could have flopped trips, but it was a very loose, aggressive table over the past couple hours, so I took that into consideration. The turn was more junk (say, 9 again offsuit from the flop). The betting was the same as the flop -- maybe one more person folded. Again, in a tight table, I would have folded, but given what I had seen the past 2 hours, it seemed justified to call. Then the river came, another low card, say 6, but enough for someone to make a straight. Someone bet, and I just called. By this time, there was nearly $50 in the pot, so even 25:1 pot odds seemed justified. I don't know what to think at these tables anymore, actually. Anyway, everyone folded, and so the 2 of us showed down. The other guy had made 2 pair on the river. He was holding something like 36 offsuit. They weren't even connected!, let alone suited. I watched in disbelief as he took the pot. Now, if I was worried about losing, maybe I was worried about losing to trip 9's, say, but 2 pair? Who on earth caps 36 offsuit pre-flop, and then calls raises on the flop and turn with nothing but a low pair? I know that the experts often make strange plays to confuse people and make plays which appear ridiculous to people who might not understand this, but this is a $1/$2 table, and even so, it seems a play like that, even done simply to advertise loudly, "I can bluff!" is incredibly expensive (he must have put in $12, that's 6 BB, just on that one hand) and not worth even the advertising that you get.


Another example, just this afternoon. $1/$2 again, this time just 4 players, though. I was on the button, and dealt AK offsuit. UTG folded, I raised, SB reraised, BB called, I capped it, SB called, BB folded. So, just me and SB. Now, the flop comes trip 8's. Wow. I quickly estimate the probability the SB holds the final 8, or holds a pair. The SB checks, I bet, he calls. The turn is a 7. Eeeek. Again, SB checks, I bet, he calls. Now, I'm not sure if betting in each of these cases was the right thing to do, I'll admit that. I was definitely aware of the staight possibilities. But the only straights to be made required low cards, and I thought it was ridiculous that anyone would cap the betting pre-flop with any pair less than TT, or any connected suitor less than QJ. The only possibility that seemed remotely plausible was JT suited, but I still placed a rather small probability on that. The river is a 6. Double Eeeeek. Again, I'm aware of all the drawing possibilities, but these seem to be all but ruled out by the previous betting. Again, SB checks, I bet, he calls. Then, to my astonishment, the SB reveals 69 offsuit! He wins with 8's full of 6's. I have flashbacks to the first hand I described above. Again, someone called 4 bets pre-flop with rags offsuit, bet more or less randomly the whole hand, then caught a gift from god on the river and walked away with $30 or $50.


This is NOT UNUSUAL at all at many low-limit games, if you think I've just picked out the most bizarre examples. There seem to be plenty of 'pure gamblers' on these tables, and it can be very distracting and unsettling. I know I'm not a perfect player, and that I have far to go to improve my game, but it can be very psychologically discouraging when this happens several times in the course of a week or so, even. It's also very bizarre to read Sklansky/Malmuth or other books, and then play at a $1/$2 table ($1/$2 is not only for my ability, but my low bankroll, as well). I compare it to getting lessons in Grand Prix auto racing, and then entering the race with a field full of drunk drivers. You can use all the fancy racing techniques you want, but first you have to dodge not getting killed by the drunks. I try to tell myself that the same ridiculous play is what makes me more money in the pots I _DO_ win, but this is easier said than internalized. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these types of things when you are first starting to play, without letting them cause you to burn all your poker books and sell your soul to the devil?


Thanks.

This question gets asked all the time.


I've always thought the answer is basic emotional maturity.


It also helps to have a good grasp of poker theory so that you understand why these things happen. It's not enough to know that they do happen.

These bad beats do happen, and they are painful when they do. They are, however, an undeniable fact of life in poker, especially at low limits. I had a player hit a one outter on the river yesterday for quads to beat a nut fullhouse in a pot limit game(OUCH!) I agree with the post below by Dynasty where he talks about emotional maturity. That is a very important componet. Also, realize they are going to happen; there is a reason they call it gambling. Pocket Aces are not a guaranteed winner, but they are a great start. That can be hard to remember in the heat of battle sometimes.


Play your best game; don't let the silliness get inside your head, and punish the fools who play this junk when you can. There BS draws are not going to hit everytime, and make them pay when they miss. Also, beware of the schooling effect of all the fish in one game. When you are in a game like this, you have to play the right kind of hands(pocket pairs looking to flop a set, and suited connectors); it is important to understand what kinds of hands play well multi-way and what kind of hand play well shorthanded or heads up. This is covered in HPFAP, also, an excellent resource for low limit play is Lee Jones' book "Winning low limit hold 'em". It looks at the game a little differently than HPFAP, I think it will help your game.


Study the game, and keep playing. Try to play under control, and post some hand histories here(not just the bad beats), and let the experts dissect them. You may be amazed to find holes in your game you never imagined were there.


May the flop be with you,


Fitz

David quotes Bobby Baldwin, in "Theory of Poker," re his getting knocked out of '81 WSOP by two 21:1 shots: (P.1)


"I've heard good players complain to me about how they get drawn out on all the time," Baldwin said after the 1981 Tournament. "But if they want to better their game and better their emotional state while playing, they should realize it's a mirage. If you are an excellent player, people are going to draw out on you a lot more than you're going to draw out on them because they're simply going to have the worst hand against you a lot more thmnes than you have the worst hand against them. There's no way you're going to draw out on anybody if you don't get all your money in there on the worst hand."

New hold'em player. Welcome to the machine. Learn this phrase: "nice hand sir" and say it when you are beat by some poor player. NEVER let them see you "sweat" or "upset" or "tilting" or "pissed off" because of some bonehead play they made. If you continue to learn and play well, you will overcome the bad beats by not letting them affect you or your game. Remember...the better players win in the long run. Good luck. Babe

I expect and anticipate a bad beat evey two (2) hours of play. If it doesn't happen I am either in the wrong game or I am having an extremely good session.

well...welcome to low limit...

it happens up to 3-6 here. up to higher limits elsewhere..

once youve gained the experience of getting snapped on pretty much every decent hand, youll grow a badbeat skin. you have to realize that you want these players to play this way. thats easier said than done, especially after getting hammered all night. it gets old. it took me a long time to learn this, and i still get a little warm at times.

if your trying to play str8 S&M, in these games, your going to likley lose a little...thats standard S&M. use their wild games section, to start. you need to adjust for multiway capped pots. there is no bluffing in this game, it just wont work. try and be sure your suited if your going to enter a pot. the thing is, the limit isnt high enough for average/below average players to care about. theyre there to gamble. which is why theyre not on a higher limit.


but how to deal with it? realize the chips are coming your way eventually, you just have to wait a little. wait for the cards to come your way, and hit. there will be times when its a more passive table, you play great, but still lose. its not as extreme, but it sucks just as bad...

look to minimize your loses. it makes your winnings more prominent. for instance, in your AK hand, you have position. on the turn, if you havent improved, check behind. he could be holding 22. you need to improve. remember your not getting away with even a semi bluff here. use your position to save chips. then if he checks the river, then maybe bet. or call a river bet. you know not to bluff, but they may not.


just some starting ideas to toss around..


b

About a year ago, I was playing poker a lot, and winning a fair amount of money. Some of my buddies wanted me to 'teach' them how to play, which I began to do, with much apprehension. I ended up writing a little 10 or 15 page manuscript on how to play, and basic strategy. Of course, it wasn't as good as any book, but it was short, and it pertained specifically to the games I had gone through, which is the games my buddies would be playing.


My point is that in this manuscript (for lack of a better word), I talked about bad beats. I went so far as to say that you WANTED bad beats. Poker isn't about winning (well...), it's about making the right decisions (which lead to winning).


When an opponent calls two bets on the turn to hit their gutshot, you should be happy. They made a mistake, you didn't.


Secondly, when they win with the wrong play, they will continue to make these same wrong plays. They are signing your paycheck.


Sure, it would be nice if they only beat your other opponents instead of yourself, but that can't be helped.


All that can be helped is that you are making the right decisions. Don't change this, or go on tilt because of a bad beat or two. And, in theory, you'll win.


Josh

move on, it's just one hand out of million or so. I play $.50-1.00, $1-2, and $2-4 at paradise and the games are very beatable. The main thing is keep an adequate bankroll(min. 150BB) in your account and don't steam. Simple, huh?

Thanks for everyone's comments! I took some time away from cards and thought about things and realized I was still seeing things pretty myopically. In response to the comment on the WSOP story in TOP, I went and read the first few chapters of that book, and that actually did more than anything to help me keep things in perspective. I understand expectation and all the mathematical concepts, I just need to have a way of looking at them in the right way. (It's one thing to understand expectation mathematically, another to act on it correctly consistently.) One thing Sklansky says in TOP (BTW, is it just me, or does Sklansky take his writing style from Walter Rudin, for those who are familiar with him? -- terse, concise, every sentence needing to be read 5 times, etc....I swear, reading Sklansky or Malmuth is an extremely similar experience to reading higher math texts), which seems obvious, but has to be said many times, I guess, is that a play is correct or incorrect BEFORE the outcome is known. Leonard Koppett makes almost exactly the same comment about managing and "bad beats" in baseball in "A Thinking Fan's Guide to Baseball". He says over and over again that a manager's decision is correct or incorrect (or justified or not justified) BEFORE the next pitch, and the outcome doesn't matter. Managers in baseball often suffer strings of "bad beats" too, getting "drawn out" by .100 hitters who slap a base hit down the line against all the odds and numbers. He even tells a story of Frank Robinson, I think, who made a sequence of 5 or 6 crucial managerial decisions in one game, all of which were correct (and Koppett explains why) and all of which failed (often because of major player mistakes on the field), so Robinson took a ton of heat from the press after the game. I've tried to look at it more and more this way, to "pretend" that the expected outcome actually _IS_ how the chips distribute after a decision, and then not worry (at least not, for a while) where the "real" ones actually go. I like Sklansky's attitude about folding, too...don't look at it as "getting a bad hand by having bad luck", look at it as a chance to "fold when you're opponent would have lost money". I doubt I'll ever find folding "pleasurable" like Sklansky says he sometimes does, but that point of view helps.