Taking chances in the money

[AsusFull]

Hey, new to this forum.

Would Like to know if it's ok to take chances where you are a slight underdog when it's down to 3 players in a PP SNG.

specifically: 3 players, stacked evenly

one player folds, 2nd player raises minimum, you have AK. Is it ok to go all in on this hand even if he shows strength?(indicating pocket pair)

Or should you call and see the flop?

I ask because I read AleoMagus's guide and he said to shoot for 1st and not worry about 2nd. I thought this situation might qualify.

[slogger]

I don't know if there is a single situation in which I will not re-raise all-in here. You would need a hell of a read (i.e., a read that a miniraise could only be AA or KK) and I honestly don't know how one could have such a read on a SnG opponent.

You haven't stated whether the blinds are high in relation to the stacks (but if it's a SnG, it's safe to assume that they're high enough to make pushing correct). If, for some reason the blinds were very low at this point, you could make a case for calling and trying to trap if an A or K hits. But I'd much rather put my opponent to a big decision before the flop than call and hope to hit the flop, while also giving him a look for free.

[BradleyT]

Of course go for it. Read This (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=807314&page=4&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#807314)

Third place sucks.

[AsusFull]

Awesome! Nice to know I'm thinking correct for tournament play.

What if the situation is more marginal(which it was):
I know at least one of the other players plays worse than me, and the blinds are only 10% of average stack size.

Would going all in preflop with AK against one opponent still be a good decision?

[BradleyT]

AK is only in trouble to two hands - AA and KK. Since you have both an ace and a king already the likelyhood of someone having either of those holdings is small.

Against all other hands you're a favorite or at worst 50/50. You will be up against worse aces (AQ, AJ, AT, A9, etc..) and worse kings (KQ, KJ, KT, etc..) often enough to make going all in with AK profitable when you're already ITM.

[JCoe]

a min raise to me in that situation means nothing, he could be raising with small suited connectors or like bradley said, a worse ace or king. i think your ahead at this point and a push is an easy decision, because if you are behind, you want to see all 5 cards with AK.

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
AK is only in trouble to two hands - AA and KK. Since you have both an ace and a king already the likelyhood of someone having either of those holdings is small.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I thought at a MTT last night. I pushed and was shown AA. /images/graemlins/mad.gif Then to rub things in, he made the nut flush.

[slogger]

Nice point in the link Brad...it's something that so many players do not put enough weight on when making shorthanded decisions. I really think that it's particularly important to remember when you're 4-handed because of how many hands the blinds will fold to avoid bubbling.

Since I've started really gunning for first, my statistics have been absolutely insane. Too good to be true, for sure, but a good sign that I'm at least doing something right.

[ScottTheFish]

when its down to 3 i will raise/reraise/call all in 100% of the time with AK.

[AsusFull]

For the record though I realize it doesn't matter, he had JJ and the board didn't help anyone.

Thanks for the feedback, I felt like I made the right decision at the time, but his hand and the outcome made me question my thinking.

[Nate Finch]

You're not a favorite over a pocket pair, but you're not a major underdog either. In fact, you're not a major dog to anything other than AA or KK. Definitely a push situation. You should win at *least* 50% of the time, probably more like 60+ to account for when you catch people with undercards.

I'll always push with AK three handed, it's so easy to catch people with AQ or KQ, and you're a major favorite over those hands.

-Nate

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice point in the link Brad...it's something that so many players do not put enough weight on when making shorthanded decisions. I really think that it's particularly important to remember when you're 4-handed because of how many hands the blinds will fold to avoid bubbling.


[/ QUOTE ]

While I somewhat agree, I think one needs to be careful with this reasoning.

The truth is, third place does not suck. Second place sucks, and fourth place sucks. This is because of the unique payout structure of sng tournaments. the jump from 4th (or worse) to 3rd is a 20% prize pool jump, whereas the jump from 3rd to 2nd is only an additional 10%. From 2nd to 1st we see another 20% jump again.

It is this structure which makes tight, selective play (particularly calling raises) on the bubble so often correct and more liberal play at 3rd correct.

That example given shows how much better 1st is than 3rd, but consider how much better 3rd is than finishing out of the money.

As far as the initial question, pushing with AK is probably the move (depending on the blind sizes). That is a strong hand and you want it all-in, especially against a middle or smaller pair.

Regards
Brad S

edit- The reason that you want to push the AK if you suspect a pocket pair is that while you are only a small underdog, you have much added value from:

a) the possibility of a steal (33 will have a hard time calling the push, maybe he's got very little)

b) the possibility that he's actually got a good, but dominated hand like QK or AQ

Calling is very bad here, because you have just turned a virtual coinflip into a 65%/35% scenario for him (about a 65% chance he's gonna be ahead on the flop). This is because if no high cards come on the flop, he's gonna fire again and it is going to be hard to call. You are only a coinflip if you can see the whole board and all-in is the way to ensure this.

[BradleyT]

Um you're already down to 3 players, so I don't know why you're including references to 4th place here.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
Um you're already down to 3 players, so I don't know why you're including references to 4th place here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um... Read the post I responded to and you will see

Regards
Brad S