QJs I think i played this one well.

[SeppDeitrich]

reads: button is a verry agressive player, others are more typical.


PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Sepp is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Sepp calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Sepp calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Sepp bets, Button raises, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Sepp calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, Sepp checks, Button bets, UTG calls, Sepp raises, Button calls, UTG calls.

River: (15.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, Sepp bets, Button folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

[Piiop]

Try raising this preflop.
After that you played it well.

[cold_cash]

Raise pre-flop, 3-bet the flop. If he caps I would slow down. If he doesn't, I would bet the turn thinking he might have AK or worse.

The problem with the turn c/r, as I see it, is we still can't say if the Button has overcards or a big overpair. If he has an overpair, I don't want to be check-raising here obviously.

With UTG still in I think you need to be putting more bets in the pot on the flop though.

[bakku]

What is your reasoning behind check raising the turn?

[SeppDeitrich]

the main reason is that i think my hand is best, despite his raise it is doubtfull that the button could beat me. it is also unlikely that the other guy who's sticking around would check call a better hand.

Secondly the turn has given me a flush draw, so if i do happen to be behind I now have a pile of outs so i no longer mind too much if the button 3-bets, so long as the big blind stays along for the ride. i also have less overcards to fear so I would rather have the bb come along with ax, or kx as opposed to folding if i bet and the button raises.

If i had not picked up a flush draw i would have just bet, and hoped for the button to raise or maybe just call with a lesser hand.

[cold_cash]

What makes you think the Button doesn't have AA, KK, AQ or KQ?

[SeppDeitrich]

sure he could have aa or kk, but he also plays aj the same way, along with alot of other hands, there is a greater supply of "other hands" in the deck compared to the number of strong holdings like aa and kk

[StellarWind]

As Button, my basic turn plan is to bet with AA-QQ, 99, AQ, and KQ. With AK or other unmade hand I will check behind you.

Now do you see what is wrong with the turn checkraise? When you are ahead he takes a free card. When you are behind he bets and possibly reraises. This is the worst of all worlds.

[skierdude1000]

I don't see why you would raise preflop here,

Definately 3 bet the flop, good check raise on the turn and good river bet, only flop play was off /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SeppDeitrich]

when i say that the button was agressive i mean that i have a read on him that he will bet out the turn if he is not re raised on the flop with any pair or any overcard, i have seen him do this before, against different competition i would have bet instead of going for the checkraise.

[HajiShirazu]

Because QJs is (probably) the best hand and plays well in this type of pot, along with most others, so you are raising for value.
Also, limping from the CO is in general a poor plan...often limping from the CO results in the statement "button calls"...this is not what you want in most cases.
I am not sure about the turn checkraise unless you know button is pretty aggro, but noticing that you picked up the flush draw it can't be that bad of a move either way. The turn checkraise is also a stronger move when you know that you are going to improve on the river as you did here.

[chief444]

I'll second what ColdCash and StellarWind pointed out below. I don't like the turn check/raise for the reasons they stated.

I also raise this pf in this situation.

[kgrad5]

i disagree, i think the turn checkraise was a great play since he picked up the club draw, especially if the other guy has overcards as it might buy him a free showdown (if hes afraid) on the river for fear of another checkraise and he has a ton of ways to improve to a much better hand then an overpair.. i was just rereading this section in hpfap this morning.. but i agree with raising pf, this hand plays well multiway

[cold_cash]

I haven't played at PokerStars at all, but at Party's microlimits there aren't many players who bet out then fold to a checkraise, which is one of the reasons I don't like it.

Another reason is the very real possibility of being 3-bet by an overpair.

[kgrad5]

yeah your argument definately makes sense and ive never played party, the only reason i like the checkraise is cuz of the club he picked up, which gives him about 15 outs to improve to the best hand over any overpair

[cold_cash]

I understand he picked up a bunch of outs, but if the villian does have a big pair or a better Queen, which by the action so far it looks he easily could, our hero is still a substantial underdog. Also, if the villian does have those hands, it's almost a 100% lock that he's going to 3-bet.

The fact there is also very little chance the villian is going to fold also takes away a lot of the upside to the checkraise.

Taking into account the size of the pot on the turn, (even without the checkraise), our hero is also committed to calling a bet on the river even when he doesn't improve.