Tournie vs. normal

[Kaiser]

Sorry to those who have already read this, but I thought I'd post it properly rather than as a reply, as I would be very interested for some opinions here. (Thanks Schwza)

In tournament play, when the blinds start getting really big, there is a natural polarisation of stacks (the rich get richer, the poor go bust) because they are forced to play worse hands and have less freedom.

Imagine I have money in a pot and someone raises me. I think I am probably behind here and not getting odds to call in a normal game. Giving up the pot would put me in a fairly weak position compared to the others. Winning it (e.g. after going all-in instead of folding) would put me in a strong position, and maybe the polarisation effect would now take me up not down. I believe this destorts the odds slightly in tournament play when considering real money (i.e. what you win for coming in 1st. etc) not the tournie chips.

Is there any basis to this theory of mine and how large an impact should it have on making border-line decisions where you suspect you could be in trouble?

Thanks, Kaiser

[MLG]

There are some implications to this theory. The most important one being that there are times as the blinds are rising and you are a short stack that you need to make a -EV play, because that play is less -EV than attempting to wait for a better spot. Just don't get carried away, you don't want to be throwing chips in after bad draws when you have like 8x because you feel like you need to be a big stack.

However, one of the keys to becoming a good MTT player is having the foresight to not put yourself in these positions. Do not make raises for large portions of your stack, go all-in instead and put pressure on the opposition. You have a flush draw and you are short stacked, don't check and face a bet for most of your chips when you may be behind, put those chips in there yourself. Putting yourself in situations where you have to call off your chips on a draw because you are short is not good tourney poker. It may be the best decision when you are faced with that bet, but you should be thinking ahead so that you do not put yourself in those positions. Never underestimate the power of folding equity.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Imagine I have money in a pot and someone raises me. I think I am probably behind here and not getting odds to call in a normal game.

You *never* want to be in this position after the flop. That's why, when your stack is small relative to the blinds, you only have 2 preflop choices: all-in or fold. There may be some debate on when you reach this point, but in general once your stack is about 10xBB, you are at this point.

[RFJ]

Personally i don't think pushing all in with mariginal hands is good. It depends on the table though... You really don't want to be pushing all in if u have loose players with big stacks.. Most likely they will call you. You want to go in with premium hands. Sometimes i feel like pushing all in with marginal hands but wait and find that I get put on a lucky streatk and get really nice hands which i would have never been able to receive if i had pushed all in before. I woulod have busted before i would have gotten them.

Example i was playing a UB freeroll for chip. Early on I had AK and had a bad beat by someone with AQ. I only had 100 chips left. Didn't really get any hands was down to aboug 50 chips. Then i was able to double that. I was just keeping up with the blinds. Then I did build my stack to about 2000 chips. I would say it was about 10x the blinds since the bb was 200. I was in position and decided to push it all in with a K J suits. One guy decided to call me with A 7 offsuit. It really would not have mattered if i played with an AK because he won by pairing his 7. When i took a bad beat early on there were at least 700 people left with me having only 100 in chips. I got out 137. I think if i didn't push all in with the K J suits i could have at least made it to 50 where i would place. Tourney is more about placing than getting building a big stack. Of course having a big stack means u can make more mistakes. Tourney is all about placing..I've seen great comeback with short stacks at the final table. I've seen things like it's down to the final 3 people. One is really short stacked. He has enough chips for maybe about 3 orbits.. But both the big stacks get extremely good cards. One gets KK another AA. So they basically push all in preflop. The short stack places 2nd. All they had to do was wait about 9 hands they both could have either 2nd or 1st. Instead one went out on 3rd.

Sorry for the long post.

Just going to make an illustration. Ok there is a wall. You have to break it down. There are tools u can use like a hammer, a bigger hammer, a jack hammer, bulldozer. The thing is they are all for rent so when someone is using them you cannot use them. Would u wait until someone finishes with them or will u just use your fist to break down the wall? If you use your fist then you may get a lucky break maybe the was was infested with termites and you were able to break it down with your fist. Basically cards are like the tools whatever hand your dealt are the tools for rent. The community cards is the type of wall. The blind is the time limit he boss has given u to break it down. If i can i'd still wait for the bulldozer than try to break something with my fist. /images/graemlins/grin.gif