Turn play Party 10/20 tight table.

[DcifrThs]

party 10/20...tight table, im on many a wait list and have accumulated about 10 table change buttons from this dealer (software program).

i get a good pocket pair in EP and raise...uncharacteristically i get 2 cold calls behind me and the bb calls. so 4 for 8.5 bets. no reads on those players other than they're pretty tight so i don't know how they play on the later streets.

flop comes 8c6s4c. bb checks, i bet one fold one call bb folds. 2 on the turn 5.25bbs on the turn.

turn comes down 8h. HERES THE QUIZ...

with which of the following pairs do you bet out vs. check if any and why(also what if you have a club in your hand...does it change things, and by how much?):

1)AA
2)KK
3)QQ
4)JJ
5)TT

-Barron

[1800GAMBLER]

I bet them all. I'm not fearing being behind and i have no interest in c/r'ing or giving free cards with the better pairs.

[Techin]

You should be more inclined to bet the tens and jacks and maybe the queens. The kings and aces should be checked. The lower pairs are more vulnerable to overcards. The caller could have a hand like AQ or KQ. Hands like these may have been worth a call to them on the flop, but they will drop them after the second eight comes out. Aces and kings are not vulnerable to overcards, so they can withstand a free card. This way you save money when the caller has an eight and save the pot if he does not.
Having a club makes it less likely that the caller is on a flush draw (or at least less likely that he will make his flush if he does have the draw). However, you would want this extra out to be there for your opponent, because it actually wins you a very big pot if it comes. Consequently, you do not want a club in your pair.

[flytrap]

If they're as tight as you describe do you really fear them having an 8? What hand with an 8 will they cold-call with? My only fear with jj or TT is that they didn't re-raise me with a slightly bigger pair, which is highly unlikely. Therefore I bet the turn with all of those pairs and pay off if raised. It's highly likely I'm ahead here.

[flytrap]

Oh and as for the second part, me having a club doesn't really change much, as it goes from 11 clubs left to 10 if I have one. Not much of a difference if you factor this in with the odds of making a flush.

[ike]

Am I off my rocker if I bet out and 3bet with every one of those club or not? You weren't reraised preflop so against typical tight 10 players you're not against QQ or better, and rarely JJ. You will often be raised by things like 77 or 99 here as well as semibluffs from the nutflush draw (if you don't have the ace obviously) and the 8 in the unlikely event they have it. I'm just really not very convinced you're behind here and there are a lot of hands that I'd imagine know they want a freecard if you check.

[1800GAMBLER]

I was going to suggest 3 betting if given the chance but i thought it was a little aggro considering our read could be a little off and they will cap trips, so i just settled to think 'i'd bet out and i wouldn't fear getting raised'.

[OrangeHeat]

1)AA - Bet
2)KK - Bet
3)QQ - Bet
4)JJ - Bet
5)TT - Bet

Three betting if given the chance sounds attractive most of the time. Your straggler could be on flush draw, middle pair, or straight out steal attempt if he raises you. Once in a while you have to crap your pants when he caps - oh well.

So I bet and I definitely wouldn't mind being raised.

Orange

[DeeJ]

I'm assuming the clue is in the Captain's microdot ie it's a tight table.

The possibility is that the caller does have Axs in clubs.

However, I'm betting all of them because most of the time I'm ahead. But I'm watching for signs of strength (ie if I'm turn raised I'm folding maybe TT/JJ unless I have a club). The decision matrix you need to plan on gets too varied to cover everything, but basically I'm always staying in with Q/K/A /images/graemlins/club.gif . Sometimes one will lose to a full house and this might slow me up on the river if the flush hits.

[DcifrThs]

the point of this post wasn't to try to see what to do if raised etc...the point was to seee how to extract the maximum from my good holding in a tight setting...

ie. is checking here with AA or KK a good idea if it will induce him to call with a hand he would not have caled with down the river? what about inducing a bluff and c-ring the river after checking the turn? what about c-r'ing the turn? i wanted ya'll to explore these options as i have b/c in a tight table my check shows weakness and a club draw may bet expecting me to fold as i've done a few times on the turn.

this way i can extract MORE from them than i might have otherwise because AT THIS TIGHT TABLE i think the opponent will fold almost every time i bet out without a draw or other pair. but he may bet those same hands when i check thereby extracting more from him than i could have otherwise. the reason im hesitant to check ALL those hands is b/c overcards present a clear and present danger to my hand. all in multiples of 4, or 8+ percentage points per set of 4.

now can we talk about checking or is everybody still in betting mode?

what about river play to GAIN THE MOST FROM THIS HAND!

-Barron

[rory]

Bet out with every one.

-rory

[DeeJ]

Don't get cranky /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I guess it all depends on how aggressive they are. The decision isn't easy - hence your post. Still I am betting for value to avoid a free card and prevent unwelcome suckouts which beat me. Might you induce a bluff bet when you hold QQ/KK/AA? Well maybe, but I think the uncertainty still makes me bet out here, since a free card can scupper you on the river.

If I check and he bets out, it depends on the river card as to whether one check-raises. But you know less about his hand (have you induced a bluff or is he betting anyway, dunno) if you check the turn rather than force a decision by betting. And the river card may help or harm him too, you're more in the dark here and increasing your variance with debatable profit.

I guess DcifrThis will have to play this scenario a few times to try it out.

I am still betting the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nightwish]

He's unlikely to bet behind you. Drop the FPS and just bet.