Really stupid letter to the editor...

[bdypdx]

This last Sunday, July 4th, The Oregonian had a front page article (http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_page/1088856132264770.xml?oregonian?fpfp) about Annie Duke and her poker playing and how she now resides in Portland. A decent article actually, continuing with another full page in the front section.

Anyway, this inanity shows up in the opinion section today:""

Don't glorify addictions (http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/108920223346160.xml)
Wednesday, July 07, 2004

Your front-page article "Portland resident antes up for a poker life" (July 4) performed a public disservice by glorifying gambling.
You repeatedly state how much money a professional gambler can rake in (up to millions of dollars at a time) and never mention that, for every successful gambler, there are hundreds or thousands whose lives and families are destroyed.

You promote the profession of gambling as a good career path for the young, noting that last year's second-place winner in the World Series, who "pocketed $3.5 million, is a 23-year old college student."

Why should anyone pursue an education? The Portland-based gambling pro's brother dropped out of college in order to gamble. He "played 70 hours straight in a cocaine-bent game" and "transformed himself" into the "Zen-like 'Professor of Poker' who won more than a half-million dollars in two televised tournaments last year."

You describe casinos as "elegant" and poker players as "intelligent." You state that the Portland-based gambling pro "pals around" with movie star Ben Affleck. What a groovy lifestyle! Please stop glorifying addictions, particularly on Page One.

DAN MEEK Southwest Portland""

I shrug at this as I head off to the cardroom...

-bdy

[jwvdcw]

So everyone who plays poker for a living is addicted??

[cardcounter0]

Everyone who plays poker period. Not just for a living.

(Obviously written by a 10 step program member)

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

Ok, I'm convinced. Time to cash out and donate ill-gotten gains to charity.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
This last Sunday, July 4th, The Oregonian had a front page article (http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_page/1088856132264770.xml?oregonian?fpfp) about Annie Duke and her poker playing and how she now resides in Portland. A decent article actually, continuing with another full page in the front section.

Anyway, this inanity shows up in the opinion section today:""

Don't glorify addictions (http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/108920223346160.xml)
Wednesday, July 07, 2004

Your front-page article "Portland resident antes up for a poker life" (July 4) performed a public disservice by glorifying gambling.
You repeatedly state how much money a professional gambler can rake in (up to millions of dollars at a time) and never mention that, for every successful gambler, there are hundreds or thousands whose lives and families are destroyed.

You promote the profession of gambling as a good career path for the young, noting that last year's second-place winner in the World Series, who "pocketed $3.5 million, is a 23-year old college student."

Why should anyone pursue an education? The Portland-based gambling pro's brother dropped out of college in order to gamble. He "played 70 hours straight in a cocaine-bent game" and "transformed himself" into the "Zen-like 'Professor of Poker' who won more than a half-million dollars in two televised tournaments last year."

You describe casinos as "elegant" and poker players as "intelligent." You state that the Portland-based gambling pro "pals around" with movie star Ben Affleck. What a groovy lifestyle! Please stop glorifying addictions, particularly on Page One.

DAN MEEK Southwest Portland""

I shrug at this as I head off to the cardroom...

-bdy

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah this sounds like my boss at my summer job (6 years running), i tell her i've been playing a lot of poker and she immediatly tells me to quit before i ruin my life (her dad choked away a ton of money, as did her good friends brother). i tried to explain it as best i could but she still considers myself to be incredibly lucky after studying for tons of hours and playing around 150,000 hands and that i should quit now because i am an intelligent person who shouldn't throw their life away gambling.

[youtalkfunny]

My mother still thinks that way. I think if I won the WSOP, she'd still think I just got lucky, and that I'd be very likely to lose it all back ($5M plus) the next time I played.

A few years ago, she came out to Vegas to visit, and brought her best friend for the trip. I took them out to see a show at the MGM, and while we waited for the theater to open, I ran over to the sportsbook to see if they had posted a series price on the Stanley Cup finals. When I saw the MGM's price, I got very excited--I had found a nice middle.

So I'm trying to explain to my mother what a "middle" is. And of course, as soon as she hears words like, "Can't lose" and "no risk", she turns to her friend and asks, "Can you believe he STILL thinks like this?"

[ElSapo]

While I think the letter is fairly silly and uneducated, if the article really did lay out the life of a professional gambler in all those terms than isn't it just as one sided as the letter?

There probably is a tendancy to glorify the game and the so-called life of a professional gambler in terms that make it elegant and simply. That's easily as misleading as the letter, no?

On the other hand, I didn't read the article so I could well be far, far off.

ElSapo

[pokeraz]

I am not sure why you call it a really stupid letter. I understand the writer's concern as I have felt it myself. Poker, and by extension gambling, has been glorified over the last couple of years with the poker explosion. No real effort has been given to show the other side of what can happen to degenerate gamblers. As poker players here, we all know that there are plenty of losers. We all know plenty of people in our circles who are constantly losing money they cannot afford to lose. We all know people whose lives have been destroyed by gambling and all the ills that come along with it. Are there intelligent poker players? Yes, but for everyone intelligent one, there are hundreds of fools. That's how we profit. None of that is being talked about. Are there people who can gamble responsibly? Of course. Are there a lot more people who are hurt by gambling than helped? Without a doubt.

Sure, the letter may not describe your situation, but I bet it describes someone you know.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If you're looking for wisdom, stop reading letters to the editor. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[B Dids]

It's stupid not because of the message (although it's with which I don't agree), but because of the way it delivers the message. There's not really an argument put forth, it's just "gambling=bad, so don't promote it".

[BassMasterK]

I read the whole article (it was almost a full page and a half), and while the editorial does quote it, they took a few quotes out of the whole article, and conveniently arranged them to not look so good. For those who are interested here is more info and my take on the article.

I personally did not find the article to be promoting poker play at all, rather it was an article about Annie Duke moving to Portland. Portland, while a big city, still has a bit of a small town feel and if a celebrity moves here, well it's news. Since poker is more popular than ever right now, it didn't hurt that her occupation is in that field.

What the person didn't mention was that regarding Howard, the cocaine quote was that he had changed himself from a two bit gambling loser playing the above mentioned cocaine induced seventy hour games, to an (implied) drug free poker zen master known as "The Professor" after studying, and now makes his living playing poker.

Another thing the person left out was Annie talking about the first time she lost over $100,000 in one session and how that made her feel and how poker players have a level at which they no longer feel comfortable with their losses and they have to play in their comfort zone.

The "elegent" casino the writer wants to scoff at, was the Ballagio where the $25,000 entry NLHE tourney Annie was playing at was located.

I thought it was a really good article, but again, at least in my humble opinion, the tone of the article was one of "hey, we have a big name poker celebrity who has moved to Portland", rather than one of "isn't gambling great now run out there and do it". They didn't even cover her winning something. They started out with the beginning of a hand she had in the tourney, she holds AKo against KQo. Then comes the meat of the article. They finish with the end of the hand....two Q's come on the flop and she loses a huge pot and is bounced out two hours later, losing her $25,000. Yep, that is really encouraging people to go out and play, lol!

The person who wrote the editorial obviously has an agenda and probably a history with gambling addiction.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]


I shrug at this as I head off to the cardroom...

-bdy

[/ QUOTE ]

I perked up at this. There's a cardroom in Portland? Maybe you're just talking about La Center...

Lemme know...

[cold_cash]

Do you guys play at La Center a lot? How are the games there?

[Sloats]

We should ban alcohol because some people drink too much and ruin their lives.

We should ban gambling because some people gamble too much and ruin their lives.

We should ban sex for high schoolers because some girls get knocked up and set themselves up for a life of poverty. (or some people get AIDS, take your pick.)

I LOVE how personal responsibility in this country has been thrown out of the window. Bring on the Carrie Nation.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys play at La Center a lot? How are the games there?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played there, but both my brother and brother-in-law play there every now and then. They said the 2/4 is run-overable.

I'm not sure which cardroom they were in.

[bdypdx]

I play there a fair bit.

The games can be very good. They always have some sort of high hand jackpot and that attracts loose "jackpot" players. They also have a $10,000 bad beat jackpot.

The cardroom is decent at the Last Frontier and has 7 poker tables. Usually they spread 3/6, 4/8 and 10/20; and sometimes 6/12. The 3/6 and 4/8 games are "kill" games. The downsides to the place is the smoke and unless you're there at the right time there can be very long waits. "Chips" casino across the street from the Last Frontier has 3 tables spreading 3/6. It too is smoky, but seems to attract more newbies.

One other thing...last week I was in the Bay Area and played at Artichoke Joes. I thought the 6/12 game I played in there was a LOT softer than the typical 3/6 game at Lacenter.

[bdypdx]

Nah, no cardrooms in Portland...well at least not legal ones...

It was indeed Lacenter I was referring to.

-bdy

[BassMasterK]

Amen brother!

[cold_cash]

Either of you guys play at Spirit Mountain?

That's where I usually end up, and on the weekends the games are usually unbelievably good. (At least, the 3/6 games I usually play in.)

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Nah, no cardrooms in Portland...well at least not legal ones...

It was indeed Lacenter I was referring to.

-bdy

[/ QUOTE ]

why the hell did annie duke move away from vegas then? especially to portland, no offense, i'm sure portlands a great city, but of all the cities in the united states she picks there, and they probably don't spread highest of high limits.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
While I think the letter is fairly silly and uneducated, if the article really did lay out the life of a professional gambler in all those terms than isn't it just as one sided as the letter?

There probably is a tendancy to glorify the game and the so-called life of a professional gambler in terms that make it elegant and simply. That's easily as misleading as the letter, no?

On the other hand, I didn't read the article so I could well be far, far off.

ElSapo

[/ QUOTE ]

good point

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]


why the hell did annie duke move away from vegas then? especially to portland, no offense, i'm sure portlands a great city, but of all the cities in the united states she picks there, and they probably don't spread highest of high limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya got me. I was out to dinner with my parents the other week, and my mom mentioned something about the Annie Duke article, but she didn't know who the player was. I listed a few female players, and when I got to Annie Duke, my mom said, yes, it was her.

Having not read the article, I said, "No. She doesn't live in Portland. It's definitely not her."

D'oh!

Maybe she moved here to face off against my brother the up and coming pro....

[BassMasterK]

The article said she was going through a divorce and she wanted to bring her kids up in an environment more family oriented. A paraphrase of a quote she gave about neighbors in Las Vegas: One, you don't know how long they are going to stay. Two, you don't know if they are felons.

It said she has a live in nanny, and with vegas being about an hour and a half flight I am sure she can get action when she wants it.

[BassMasterK]

Hey coldcash, I've been playing at Spirit Mountain for the last two months now, usually on Sundays. It's a nice card room with friendly staff. Last week I sat next to a guy who was visiting from Spokane and he made it sound like the action on Friday and Saturday night was pretty wild and loose. Any truth to this? I might have to try to make it down for a weekend night....

[juanez]

Yeah - the author of the letter to the editor probably wrote it while on his 3rd glass of wine.

[cold_cash]

I usually only go on the weekend, either friday or saturday night, and most of those nights there are plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of super soft 2/4 3/6 and 4/8 games going. I haven't played any higher yet, but if those are your limits I can practically guarantee you can find a great game to sit in over there.

There's also plenty of tables and usually not that long of a wait if you get there relatively early.

[Joe Tall]

the author of the letter to the editor probably wrote it while on his 3rd glass of wine.

That's after losing 2 or 3k playing poker online.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
You repeatedly state how much money a professional gambler can rake in (up to millions of dollars at a time) and never mention that, for every successful gambler, there are hundreds or thousands whose lives and families are destroyed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people are intellectually incapable of being good at anything.

~D

[BassMasterK]

I think I am going to have to try to get there for a weekend night. I was there today and when I first sat down there were two really loose guys raising it up and capping bets with next to nothing. I prayed to the poker gods to give me some hands before they were busted and I got one for a pretty good pot, but then they went broke and no one else at the table was nearly that loose. After they left a lady to my right commented "must be left over from last night" and I have heard that the games get pretty juicy on the weekend nights, it's just harder for me to get away for them.

Sounds like I need to clear out some time for it. How early do you recommend showing up so I don't have to wait for too long to get a seat?