JJ on the bubble with another short stack...

[JrJordan]

Similar to another hand that was recently posted. Two super big stacks are playing tough against me and another small. Other short stack has been playing ubertight, even with the shortest of stacks. Not quite sure what to do here.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed)

UTG (t2960)
Button (t4040)
SB (t340)
Hero (t660)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, Button calls t600, SB folds, Hero...

My choices... fold or all in. If I fold, I can possibly hang on to take third if the SB's eventual push is beaten. If the SB makes a stand and even steals the blinds, then I get blinded out in the next orbit before he does. If I push, I basically lock third place and have potential to do damage with a win. If I lose, then I look like a fool for letting the super short stack limp into the money. What's the plan Stan?

[ScottTheFish]

Oh man. EASY Push, IMO. Screw 3rd. Give yourself a shot at 1st. Button has already called. you have a chance to triple up and you have a premium pocket pair 4 handed. Play to win.

VERY good chance I'm a big favorite over 1, and at worst a coinflip with the other. I'll take my chances with a coinflip for a chance to triple up when I have a 2 BB stack.

[Hood]

I'm not so sure it is that easy. With JJ against 2 players, being up against an ace, king and queen is likely. And with you all-in on the bubble, there's guys are going to check-it down to the river.

I think you are a dog against two players here. I think it's irrelevant that 'I'm a favourite over one' and a 'coin flip over another'. You are up against two hands combined. Unless these guys have covered each other with aces, my guess is odds are you'll lose this hand. And the fact that SB is all-in when the blind comes around means hanging in for 3rd isn't a bad move.

[ScottTheFish]

You may be right, Maybe I am a dog to the 2 players combined. But I'll still take my chances with the 4th best possible hand vs. going heads up vs. one person with whatever cheese cards I get dealt in the next 7 or 8 hands until I'm blinded off. There is no way I'm folding JJ with a 2 BB stack ansd a chance to triple up. If I hang on for 3rd I'm pretty much guaranteed 3rd. I'll take the shot and have a chance for 1st.

Not saying you're wrong, I would just look at it differently I guess. I'm curious to see what others think.

[JrJordan]

I go all in and both big stacks call the 60 raise, check to the turn where one folds to a bet. Villain shows KJo, and I'm done when the K hits on the river. The more I think about it, the more I think I made the right decision. I am nowhere near a lock for 3rd place. When blinds comes around to the other short stack, he could very well push all in when I have to defend. If I fold, then the very next hand I could be blinded off. The other short stack does face the blinds first, however there are just too many opportunities for him to survive another orbit. By winning this hand, I can at least guarantee a 3rd place finish and take a shot at the big money. By folding, I MAY barely make it to the money, and am all but finished after that.

[woodguy]

How can you lay down the 4th best staring hand when you only have 2bb's left?
Waiting for AA,KK,QQ?
Push and hope eveyone calls.

regards,
woodguy

[ScottTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain shows KJo, and I'm done when the K hits on the river. The more I think about it, the more I think I made the right decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good play. He had 3 outs. Great situation for you, most of the time you'll triple up and be right back in it. Keep playing to win. Don't be afraid to bust out 4th.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure it is that easy. With JJ against 2 players, being up against an ace, king and queen is likely. And with you all-in on the bubble, there's guys are going to check-it down to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised at how often this doesn't happen. Maybe everyone's reading TPFAP, but at least at PS, I rarely see the "standard" check downs.

[Big TR]

I just started playin 1 tables regularly in the last two weeks,and I have noticed this problem. 4 left, 1 short stack disconnected.

Rather than just fold around and get in the money, the two other idiots beat on each other. I had never imagined that this would happen. I was under the impression the PS community was a bit more knowledgeable than the PP one. Guess not.

[BigJohn043]

"With JJ against 2 players, being up against an ace, king and queen is likely."

I am not sure why you say that. I think the odds are pretty good that one of them is playing Ax, particularly the original raiser. I think there is a pretty good chance you are only facing two overcards and if you are lucky only one. Even with three overcards, you are getting a great price on your money.

If someone is playing a higher pair or hits their card I think you say nh and play the next one...

[stupidsucker]

I can understand this being a tough call but..

These two big stacks could have absolutly anything.. I think the all in is the best choice.. if you fold and fold your SB you are left with 210. if you and the other short stack keep folding then eventually you will both be all in when you and him are BB/SB the next round.

Take the JJ, and take the 4th place finish. As you see they had to get lucky to beat you, the bet on the turn was an awful bet. Bluffing dry sidepots is STUPID.. No one ever seems to do the check down...

ID say your push was fine, but I certainly understand second guessing it. Its close enough that I think pushing or folding is almost 50/50 getting into the money.. BUT by pushing you have a better chance to double up now and maybe even make 2nd or 1st... By waiting for a crapshoot with the other small stack you are begging for 4th or 3rd only.